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| Let's Talk About JL & RC2 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 30 2008, 02:59 AM (915 Views) | |
| Swifty | Jan 30 2008, 02:59 AM Post #1 |
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
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Let's have a frank discussion on one of our favorite brands of diecast and where we see it headed. Discussion on another thread in the BWF section has got me wondering just where Johnny Lightning is heading in the future. We've seen some interesting things in the Bolt coming our way this year, and the online dealers all have a number of releases scheduled for the rest of the year. So this will give us something to go on. Distribution Is currently absolutely horrible. I can only get JLs at one store locally (Wal*Mart) and they don't stock frequently. I've been getting most of them at a hobby store (Kiddie Kar Kollectibles in Reading, PA- which is not so local for me) because I can't find them at retail. Now I don't care about WLs, but I know others do. And last year was the first year I didn't get a WL in the wild since 2002. And that all comes down to not being able to find new releases on a retail level. A lot (not all, but a lot nonetheless) of hobby stores and online dealers pull WLs to sell on the side. And while that prevents scalpers getting them to sell on eBay, it turns those outlets into the scalpers. I know a few people who don't shop at certain hobby stores due to the chase car pulling practices. This means that the WLs aren't getting into the hands of the people who most appreciate them. What's funny is that people used to complain about distribution in the PM era, and yet you could find JL at Wal*Mart, Target, Toys R Us, KayBee, Boscov's, Hobby Lobby, K-Mart, Meijer's, Cracker Barrel, and more. I never had a hard time getting the cars I wanted back then- and I never set foot into a hobby store or ordered online. Branding Johnny Lightning is expanding it's range, this is good. People will see the JL logo on more products and parents will become more familiar with it. Unfortunately most parents are not going to buy their kids $5 toy cars to play with (especially when Hot Wheels and Matchbox are much better known and much cheaper). But they will buy them toy robots, etc. with the JL logo and thus expose kids to JL products. This keeps the JL line profitable and that's good. It also brings in the kids, which is also good. They may grow up and turn into diecast collectors. But the problem is the what they're doing to the JL diecast line itself. We're getting rehashed Racing Champions and ERTL castings from the mid to late '90s put into the JL line. I don't mind this, honestly, because it gives us a chance to get some more variety into the JL line and some of these castings are quite good. But they're ruining them in the transition to turning them into JLs. We don't need a RC '58 Impala casting in a JL blister since JL makes the same car. The Hudson Hornet (coming this year!) is a great choice for the JL line, and I'm happy to see it finally become a JL. Racing Champions never took full advantage of this casting when they had it. What bugs me is they're wasting new tooling money 'JLizing' these old castings instead of just releasing them as is. They ruined the ERTL Cougar. I'm sorry, but that was an awesome casting when it was an ERTL, but the JL version is junk. Move them all to the JL line, but don't waste money retooling them, just release them as is (*gasps* yes, even if it means plastic bases). We're starting to see plastic bases on the JL 1/24 cars so it's likely going to happen eventually. Castings There are definitely more good choices to mine from Racing Champions and ERTL. I'd love to see the '80s era ERTLs come back. There's no way you could sell them at the $5 price point but launch them at $2 and aim them right at Fresh Cherries' market. Let's see the ERTL American Muscle cars with the opening hoods and trunks retain all their opening features and those you could sell at the JL $4.44 price point. More to the point, by not modifying the old castings it frees up tooling money for some more new cars. JL has become very stale of late. There have not been many new castings (a far cry from the 35-40 new castings a year we got in the Playing Mantis era) the past few years. Many of the newer cars were either in development at the time of the buyout (Gremlin, Vega, Super Beetle, Pinto, Maverick, etc.) or were retooled RC/ERTL casts (Buick Grand National, '50 Chevy pickup, upcoming Hudson Hornet, etc.). I want to see more new tools like the upcoming International Scout II and Chevy Monza. What I'm seeing right now from RC2 is the same thing RC2 has always done- and that's react not innovate. Fresh Cherries are selling, so let's toss a Monza into the mix and see how it does. We'd have never seen that one if it wasn't for MotorMax. PM used to take chances from time to time. Some of them were hits (Muscle Cars USA, Coca-Cola), some less so (British Invasion, Import Heat). Sure they had reactions too (Scrapin'), every company does. But by and large I liked JL a lot better in the PM era than the RC2 era. People used to complain about how many repaints of older castings there were back in the days when we did get a lot of new castings each year. It becomes even more blatantly obvious when there are fewer new castings to sprinkle into new releases. The '62 Plymouth is a great casting, don't get me wrong. But if JL would "lose" the tooling for that one for about five years I'd be happy. There are plenty of other good castings to choose from that there's no need to overuse a few of them. Personnel Losing Mac Ragan is probably the biggest mistake RC2 could make in regards to the JL diecast line. And we can't forget about Mike (PMS485). Surrounding yourself with good people is a must. I don't have a whole lot of confidence in the people running JL these days. Think of some of the folks (Higgprime, RPMq) we got a chance to know back in the PM days on Hobby Talk. We don't get much interaction from the JL team these days except for a few posts over at JL Talk. Competition Is getting fiercer for an ever decreasing market. Diecast is not a growing industry. Despite the recent influx of new brands such as Jada and 1 Badd Ride in the past 5-10 years, the market really peaked in the late '90s and has been declining since. MotorMax discovered an untapped market for realistic cars from the '70s and '80s with the Fresh Cherries and American Graffiti lines. Yat Ming has struck gold with realistic trucks and hot rods from the '30s-'50s. Greenlight has attracted many of JL's core group of collectors with similar offerings (classic muscle cars) to JL. Mattel has stepped up the competition too as now Matchbox's main line is becoming more and more impressive...for under a buck, not to mention their premium lines like Matchbox Superfast. And their "Cars" cars seem to be the fastest moving product in the diecast aisles these days. Company Image Let's face it, a lot of people are not happy with the way RC2 has handled the JL line since the buyout. The way they've handled LightningFest has left a bitter taste in the mouths of a lot of collectors- especially those who have attended 'Fest, purchased 'Fest cars in support of the event (even if they couldn't attend), or helped out/sponsored the event. Not a good way to take care of your most loyal customers. People that are willing to travel across the country to come to an event based around your product are your core customers and you need to take care of them. Something RC2 has not done. And then there's the little copyright notice on their pictures on their website. RC2 is not in the business of selling pictures, they are in the business of selling toys. This is a personal pet peeve here- if you want people to buy your cars, you want as many people as possible to see those images. Let people spread them around and build up hype. The collector's club is free to join, so there's no reason the info contained within needs to be kept hush-hush like a paid club (for example the old JL club, the Under The Hood Club, or the Redline Club). There are some other points to be made here, however, but that is a matter for another thread on another night. The Future Despite what the doomsdayists may say, JL has a future. We've got proof that cars are in the pipeline and coming this year. Now while companies (PM and RC2 included) have canceled future releases in the past, I still have confidence that we'll get what we've seen so far. What worries me is that JL is now just one of many toylines for RC2. And I might add it is one that does not fit in with the other lines the company sells. That is the single most worrisome thing to me- JL isn't a "Learning Curve" friendly product like Thomas the Tank Engine. Total speculation here, but I suspect that if the right person or company came along with the right amount of cash RC2 wouldn't think twice about selling JL entirely. Mattel is not a good fit- they'd kill the brand quickly and quietly to eliminate the competition. Greenlight is true 1/64 scale so most of JL's castings would do them no good. Yat Ming, MotorMax, and Maisto have all recently started turning their attention to the premium diecast lines in addition to their budget children's lines. I could see JL benefiting any of the three of them- instant brand recognition and market share. In conclusion, I'm still a Johnny Lightning fan, and I'll still be purchasing JLs as long as they keep making them (hopefully for years to come). The floor is yours... |
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| DaleFan | Jan 30 2008, 12:05 PM Post #2 |
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Midsize
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RC2 isn't Racing Champions anymore. They are Thomas, and Learning Curve. I believe they bought out Tom Lowe to get the BRAND name Johnny Lightning. Hence as Swifty stated, more than just diecast are branded with the Johnny Lightning name. As long as JL sales are as good as most of the Online dealers say they are, RC2 says great keep doing the same thing. They made a big deal at the NY Toy Fair the year of the acquisition of JL by then RC2-Ertl. No ERTL or RC2 Mint casting would be incorporated and called JL. Well that didn't come true. Going to the NY Toy Fair used to be fun to see rows of booths of diecast cars in all shapes and sizes. In the last 5 years those rows have become on side of half a row, some manufacturers only have their Toy district showrooms which are not so grand anymore. The market of diecast toys is lagging from the high times in the late 1990's. Even NASCAR maker RCi-Action/Motorsports Authentics or whatever they are called now is cutting back production quantities, and some of the more frivilous iterations of the same car. At RC2 quality control has suffered big time. Cars that don't roll, cars that only have three wheels touching the ground at the same time, chipped paint, hairs in paint, LEAD paint. ON and on. Far worse than the days of JL being done by PM. This past year has been the WORST I have seen. Being one who removes the cars from the package I have had to FIX too many items. I really don't care for the packaging that ALL the manufacturers have gone to these days. I understand some of the logic but I think all the plastic is overkill. I am not going to lose sleep and get an ulcer about it either. Distribution. hmmmm. I still think this has more to do with the actual retailers than with RC2 or JL. No matter WHICH company ran the JL brand, this distribution topic brought up the SAME problems. So obviously the cause of bad distribution cannot be laid at the feet of the MANUFACTURER alone. RC2, Playing Mantis do not have retailing/marketing representatives in each store setting up PURCHASED prime reatiling space like Mattel has. RC2 relies on each store to put their product on the pegs, shelves or racks. Mattel has representatives who place time sensitive promotional items into each store location. Xmas items, Easter, special movie promotions etc. I think they even hire a merchandising firm to do the larger displays to assist each of the regional representatives who handle multiple stores in an area. One also has to remember that JL's aren't making 100,000 of each vehicle as Mattel does for HW and MB. When you split up even 20,000 items across all retailers and On-line dealers and hobby stores, the pickin's get slim as far as how much goes to each store. In my years I have discovered that the STORES that SELL, keep getting items. I've shopped in stores from Rhode Island to Maryland across to Ohio. Wal Mart, Target, Kmart and small regional stores. I have found large displays and some remnants leftovers. Even the stores with the small quantities HAD the product. I have found that the loudest complainers are also the ones who don't go looking on a regular basis. I know when I cut down my weekly toy runs, I wasn't finding HW and MBox cars like I used to. There are others shopping also, not just me. Scalpers, sure but in most of the area's where I have lived, if you wanted to get the product from STORES you had to play the SCALPER Shop around the clock game too. Also about distribution. If you have STORE employees "shopping" instead of putting things out on display. IF you have store employees who have "special" customers who get alerted to shipments, have boxes "saved" for them only, well I find it very difficult to put the entire "blame" on distribution problems in the lap of the manufacturer. Some people have no problem doing this even asking for the Manufacturer to do something about it. I seriously doubt that anyone except the largest manufacturers can tell a Wal Mart to cease "special" deals or lose the product. In too many cases it isn't the lowly stock man/woman doing this type of side business. It's the Toy Dept manager, and in some observered cases it has been the Store Manager. This is not good for the stores' business because people who WANT the items stop going to the store because they already feel the product won't be there anyways. If a store manager is REALLY interested in overall sales for the store, ANYONE caught doing special deals for friends would be canned. Sure the product is sold in bulk to a customer (scalper/friend) but the intangible cost of losing all those other collectors who get angry at not finding product can get expensive. I know many times during my TOY shopping I would buy other items (not toys) during my walk to/from the toy aisles. When stores had less and less on their pegs, I didn't bother going in and concentrated on the stores that were constantly stocked or I knew didn't have special deals going on. |
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| jedimario | Jan 30 2008, 04:18 PM Post #3 |
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RAWR
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I've never really been a huge JL fan, so I don't know how much I can contribute here, but I'll say something anyway
I never really paid much attention to JL until after RC2 acquired the name. It wasn't because of the name change, it was because I didn't see the point in spending more than $1 on a car in most cases, HW quality was quite satisfactory for me for the most part. JL just seemed like a HW with RR and a few more tampoes. Then I got a job, had some extra cash, and decided to check things out. At first, I would occasionally see something I liked, but was mostly unimpressed...how many huge 70s sedans and little hatchbacks of doom could someone make?? When it wasn't something like that, it was a bunch of generic muscle cars...but HW had already fulfilled that fix for me. So for me personally, JL didn't offer that much. And when I would see something online that I really liked, I would never see it in a store. Now, they seem to have fixed some distribution problems in my area-it's a lot better, but still not great- but once again I'm not really buying them. Why? Other companies have beat them to the game...Greenlight, MB, Jada, Maisto, HW..pretty much everything else but Motormax is getting my dollar. The JL just seem inferior for the price. A GL costs the same but they just look 10 times better to me, while the other brands aren't much worse but a lot cheaper. JL just can't seem to win...the best thing they could do to get my business at this point is fix distribution and somehow reduce price without otherwise affecting the product. Perhaps switch back to cardboard blisters or...something. Well, that's my $0.02 about it. EDIT: I forgot to mention quality control...a lot of what I see online is great, but then I go buy the car, and more often then not (yes, more than half the time) it's got a chip in the paint, the car doesn't set right, it doesn't roll, ect. If most of the cars they actually made looked as good as the pictures I see over at HT and elsewhere, they would actually be pretty good. |
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| craftymore | Jan 30 2008, 07:30 PM Post #4 |
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Support your local demo derby.
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I'll echo some of what I mentioned on the other thread. JL is and has been my favorite toy car maker for several years now. When I did start collecting JLs seriously and joined HobbyTalk, I was really hooked on them. At that time they were $2.97 and no one could compete them in terms of detail and accuracy.Not Hotwheels or MB at the time. No one else had separage colored bumpers, realistic diecast bases, and opening hoods with separate engines. At that time, I spent about $50 or more a month most of which went to JL. The real thrill of joining HT was sharing in the awesome detail of JLs of which Sean was and still is a big part of. Distribution was really good with my local Wally Worlds getting in constant shipments of new product. The price then jumped to $3.29 if memory serves me correctly. Still I was pretty psyched about JL and the collector experience. I travled as far as forty-five miles to go to the nearest TRU to buy over a dozen Johnnnies at a time. It was a lot of money, but the detail and authenticity of the cars could not be beat at the time. For whatever reason, distribution began to slow during this time at my local Wally Worlds. This with the increasing of the price took some luster off of JLs Soon after Playing Mantis was bought out by RC who also bought out ERTL. I,like many collectors thought distribution might improve but this has not turned out to be the case. At the begginning of 2007, I did see a bump in the number of new JLs put out at the local Wally Worlds. I bought the new 70 GS, a couple of WL Chevy Blazers and some other stuff at that time. By then, prices had shot up to $4. After this did not see any new product on the shelf for the rest of the year. While on vacation in September to see family, I went to Milezone and caught up on the the JLs that I had missed out on. I essentially bought my years supply of JLs with the help of Russ in one afternoon because my local distribution of JLs was so poor. I have no locally owned hobby stores to buy diecast at and WM is essentially the only outlet I have. Did see some JLs at Rural Kiing for X-Mas. Prices at WM now range between $4.44 and $4.97. In fact, just after X-Mas, a local WM just now set out the Holiday Rides. Talk about timing! I'm not paying $4-$5 for old castings. Learning Curve using old RC castings as JL is a total rip IMO. They are out of scale and way overpriced considering that they all at least 10 years old now. If JL are going to cost between $4-$5, then let's see all new castings with removable rims and rubber tires and not plastic wheels. The casting I'm most looking forward to is the IH Scout which is long overdue. Now in the year 2008, I'm looking forward to the Mathcbox lineup which for only a $1, is the best deal. My collection has always been diverse and not devoted to any one diecast brand. HW, MB, yatming and others have always been inerests in my collection. With the high price of JL and lousy distribution, I see myself only buying a handful of them this year. Why JL can't offer new castings instead of RC retreads? Perhaps I don't know the way a business ought to be run or fully comprehend the dynamics involved in small scale diecast cars. With that said, JL could be doing a lot better. Zach |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Jan 30 2008, 08:17 PM Post #5 |
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SUV
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Here’s what I think…this thread makes some very good points, however, I think they are moot points to RC2/LC. I believe the line does have a future, but the market itself has changed, is changing--we all agree on that. But let me give you another view of what I see happening, that everyone has noticed, but failed to draw some obvious conclusions from. The JL line is becoming, slowly, but surely, a direct sales line. Meaning, that online dealers are getting the lions share of the sales--and might even get all the sales--because that’s who is making the sales. Comic books did much the same thing. They used to be available in almost any supermarket or drugstore, on a magazine rack or a spinner rack, which ruined them. Comic shops opened a new door, where people could not only find all their comics in one place, but opened a whole new market for books sold directly, and exclusively, to these shops, with a lower distribution rate. After a time, this made some books more valuable, since they were harder to find, and less of them. There was a comic boom for a while that followed, then a decline after the industry flooded the market with crap. Comics had to build themselves back up again, but were nowhere near the numbers they once sold. I see diecast taking either the same road, or at least a variation on that path. The JL line in particular, has more and more limited edition cars. Even the new Road trip is limited to 10,000 per unit. This isn’t a lot, by any means., considering, and they are direct sales type numbers to be sure. But it keeps the numbers at a level of sales on most cars that won’t exceed a lot over their primary distributors, meaning the OLD’s. Distribution is certainly a problem. And my area is one that is very low. But with production numbers being what they are, I don’t see how distribution is going to increase. Counting the number of stores that may place an order for a new JL assortment, how many cases do you think are really left to divide among retailers with those numbers? Not many. And when we do get a case or two of something interesting here, it is gone almost instantly. And unless you are on the spot, well, tough luck, Charlie. I suggest for the foreseeable future, that planning ahead is in order. Keep posted of new releases, and if there is something you want, don’t wait, place an order with an OLD. I’ve waited for stores most of the past year until I saw enough of the newer cars and dist. Numbers to catch on to what was really happening. Will this mean certain cars become highly collectible like comics, or that an eventual new boom is on the rise? When speculating on such things, you’re as apt to be wrong as right. Trends in such things would indicate that it is possible. On the other hand, if this line is making a solid sale for LC, and they aren’t loosing money on what they are producing, it isn’t likely they will put the line up on the auction block for another company. Granted, someone with more vision may be able to take the line farther than it’s current scope. However, that would mean new dies, and that means money to finance such a venture, and with the current numbers, no one outside of an independently wealthy JL lover is going to invest because it would take too long right now to get a return on such an investment. And no larger company will invest capital unless they figure on making a quick return. I believe LC could do better planning most releases, and get a little more creative with adding more variation to paint jobs, include the occasional BWF or RWB in a series. They seem to either have very little idea what the collectors go for. Of course it’s arguable that they just don’t care, but that’s not realistic. Of course they want to make money. They just either have a lousy mind in charge of making the executive decisions on what comes out, or corporate heads have decided to ignore any past trends in favor of pushing forward in hopes of finding a bigger and better trend. This is most likely the case because it exactly how corporations think. I think the best we can do is adjust to the current circumstances and see what happens. I still enjoy the better cars, and buy them when I can. I’ve just been more selective about my collecting. |
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| bray | Jan 30 2008, 10:51 PM Post #6 |
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Hot stuff
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Many good points so far, so here's my take. Think about this quote
This seems to be quite accurate, and if it continues to go that way. I won't be collecting new JLs anymore. I remember an OLD stating he was informed that most releases were sold out. That is mostly due to limited production, but I've rarely seen more than one case of anything, anywhere. The OLDS are selling a lot of the product, and I don't have a problem with that. My problem is with my buying habits, it would be ridiculous for me to order one or two cars a month. Plus there is the matter of getting what they happen to send you, factory issues, etc. If I find it in a store and there's a problem with it, I put it back. I will buy any color or variation of a handful of models. Other than that, I will buy what appeals to me when I see it. (in person, not in pictures) As such, my impulse buying seems to be over due to lack of product on the pegs, I can only buy what I can find. My purchases were down in 07 and I expect it to be even less this year. It is getting harder to find the regulars of the few I do collect, and and I hunt the stores at least several days a week! I'm not concerned much about any issue other than availability. If I don't see it, I can't buy it! I have been having an easier time finding Greenlight, and bought more of their product in the past year than JL. |
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| Mark Hosaflook | Jan 31 2008, 03:25 PM Post #7 |
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Subcompact
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Don't forget Tony Karamitsos. He did the lion's share of series work before he left. I noticed that OLD's seemed like the only answer if you wanted product as well and I just can't warm up to that. I know the postage fee more than is offset by gas but something about the thrill of the car in your hand at the store. Probably ingrained form the early Redlines and the thrill from my youth. I like the new format Tom uses at AutoWorld and I think it's a viable alternative. OLD's hate it as control of sales and Chase are in the hands of the manufacturer but for those who buy chase only. It's a far cheaper format then the hunt on e-bay and such. Buy this....get that at this price. Makes sense. I see start ups like M2 who have nice stuff but at 5.00 a pop for the first series and rumors of a price increase after the bait, I'm not sure I'm willing to fork that over. Well written Swifty, lots of thoughts we all feel. There was rumors last year that didn't materialize so any thoughts this year are noting but
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| James | Jan 31 2008, 09:08 PM Post #8 |
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Mr.Bowtie
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Pancake on a bunny!I have enjoyed this thread, I have little to add as it has been all said very well. Distribution problems whether they are JL or LC made or Tru or Wally's made still add up to problems. All in all I guess I made out like a bandit last year went from 3 JL's to over 300. But did have help in the Big Dump up here in Canuck Land. And we have problems with MB's and Motormax and Jada availabilty also. It isn't particular to JL. (makes me think it is a dealer problem) Up to now I have resisted the OLD route, The thrill of the hunt is more then half the fun for me. And I like to pick and choose (I am like Bray, out looking 4 or 5 times a week, I buy what I find and like) (I like all bowties so I buy all bowties, everything else is a toss up between how much I like it and its price) Price, a bit of a concern, and I try not to compare apples to oranges. But when I get a Motormax detailed better then a JL. I inavertedly start to compare. Or even an MB with opening hood and excellent tampos for 1$, And the 5$ MB's and HW's almost always have RWheels. It seems to me there are less and less JL's with RW's. Maybe my imagination. I don't have a problem with RC castings and rather like what they have done so far. I get a little tired of so castings being over used for a year or 2. With almost 1000 castings you think they could have more different ones each year. (It never hurts to even issue a few Stangs once in a while) 2 bowties, 1 Mopar, 1 FOMOCO in every issue works for me.
throw in a bug or 2 every 6 monthsDo I have a problem if JL gets sold, no, it been there , its done that, survived and it will survive again. Time will tell if the fanatical fan of JL have input to the issues. Mr Z visits JLTalk quite regularly, and seems sincere, and solicits input. What he does with it, we will have to see. But we are all slightly biased over there, with our praise, and go by the motto If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it at all. I'll pass on that issue is enough said. Lotsa good things happening in diecast land, MB has kicked it up a notch or two iwth MBX. faboulous issues. As much as I hate T-hunts and Mystery cars, I can't stop myself from buying them when I find them So the program works. And I have found some real nice stuff in all that HW fantasy land stuff. Which in my land is "I'll pass on that issue" Its nice but not for me. I can't tsay enough about Motormax, American Grafitti, Cherries, etc. Impressive stuff at an excellent price. Maisto from cheap to 5$ up here, some good stuff, Jada you either love it or hate it, but quality is excellent IMO. What do I know. and
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Feb 1 2008, 12:56 PM Post #9 |
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SUV
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James is right, there is a lot of quality diecast, ad I have noticed some nice MB stuff on the pegs lately. JL is my favorite, and I hate to see nothing but overused muscle cars and blue Pacers taking up space in my area when so many castings are available. But I do think JL will survive. It's a tough period right now for the fans of the line. I think the main thing LC has to keep in mind is that every dollar we can't spend on product that never shows is going to their competition. I bought a fair share of Jada last year, and even a handfull of HW's now and then. For example, this is a great little car for a buck, and helps fill the hole left by all the BWFs LC isn't putting out ![]() |
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| Mark Hosaflook | Feb 7 2008, 03:40 PM Post #10 |
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Subcompact
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I think if you all check out the February issue of the Bolt, you will see they are taking more steps in the right direction. Fences are being mended, bridges rebuilt and open dialogue. All positives for the "festive" person.
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| 68GTCS | Feb 7 2008, 11:12 PM Post #11 |
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Microcar
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I tend to agree with the distribution problems. I am not sure what or who is at fault but I can't find anything in the stores anymore. Mark said it right when you "find" a car at the store and it gives you that feeling that makes this hobby alot more fun. I have gottn the "I don't even care" if I find a Wl anymore, and there are VERY few I will even chase to add to my collection. I have been trying to find new cars, and wait to see if the TRU in my area will get them in, I see OLD have them but I chose to wait, then just as I decide to bow down the the OLD orders they are sold out. I like some Greenlight cars, they are hard to find these days too, but my TRUE LOVE in diecast is still the JL line and Mark, I will be waiting to see the new BOLT and hope that FESTIVE feeling is as good as I think it will be
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| DaleFan | Feb 8 2008, 11:22 AM Post #12 |
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Midsize
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The packaging everyone seems to hate, may be a requirement factor by the government and/or the retailers. If you notice, almost all the similar lines use the same packaging. By similar lines I am talking about MotorMax, Greenlight, Jada, Muscle Machines etc... I'm not sure how Mattel gets away with it's simplified packaging and all the others seem to drift toward the more complicated plastic clams, but it is interesting that $1.00 cars can come with such simple packaging and $3.00+ cars need all the extra material. :wacko: I find it ironic how many collectors tag Wal Mart and the other large retailers with derogatory names yet WANT to find and buy product from them to help those hated companies bottom line. The on-line dealers are small business men who are usually "car guys" themselves. I would much rather support them and pay a little more than drive hundreds of miles a month "hoping" to find something at 8 different stores every week. The time spent alone adds up to thousands of potential dollars if you put a price on your time. Find a local buying partner and invest in case lots. Make arrangements how to split the cases and how to divvy up any White Lightnings that might pop up. |
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| Deleted User | Feb 8 2008, 11:45 AM Post #13 |
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Deleted User
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Kind of like a little Johnny Lightning Co-op ...... I like that!
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| jedimario | Feb 8 2008, 12:39 PM Post #14 |
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RAWR
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I would love to buy from the OLD...but with such a tight budget, paying for shipping is unreasonable when I can find what I want for the most part at retail...most of what I want not being JL Now if I had an OLD that had a store in my area, like Milezone's I believe, I would be all over that. Again, it's mostly just the shipping costs. |
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| bray | Feb 8 2008, 01:01 PM Post #15 |
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Hot stuff
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You're not taking into account the thrill of the hunt, and also impulse buys. Since the demise of Street Freaks, with Spoilers, BWF, and PIPs, and due to money and space constraints, my collecting habits had to be altered with the appearance of the new packaging. I will buy any flavor of 3 specific castings. Other than that, any JLs I buy are impulse buys. I need to hold it in my hand and say something like "thats pretty sweet, I think I'll take it along". I can't do that with an OLD. My collection has hundreds of impulse buys from the past few years, but in the past half year or so, I can count them on one hand. Don't get me wrong here, I am not against OLDS! It's just not a practical way for me to go about collecting diecast at this time. |
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| roadwarrior | Feb 8 2008, 01:26 PM Post #16 |
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Station Wagon
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Bray you got it right,I only buy the "just gotta haves" online,and with shipping costs it puts limits on the extras I would usually get. Being able to actually hold it in my hand makes it easier to grab whatever catches my eye or stuff I can use to trade,plus you know if you don't buy it now it won't be there later,and if the stores don't have it I can't buy it.
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| Mark Hosaflook | Feb 8 2008, 01:52 PM Post #17 |
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Subcompact
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OLD's will never "save" me time. That implies that I needlessly drive around with die-cast pursuit as my main goal. No! Instead, speaking for myself I once enjoyed being able to go in almost any store and while completing THAT task at hand, I'd make a detour to go down the die-cast aisle in hopes of finding a treasure. This is when my impulse buying was at it's greatest. With lack of product it simply means the detour takes less time and the impulse is far less. Since I don't go out of my way to make die-cast trips to begin with I see no value that an OLD adds to my time nor do they get credit for saving me gas as well. I can't think that I am in the minority here because I see post after post expressing the same thing. An icon picture unless it's a stunning piece is not going to sell me on an OLD site. In regards to selling formats, I actually believe Tom Lowe's new format with slots takes care of all issues at hand and at least now most of the chase coin ends up in the pockets best suited. that being the vendors and the company itself. Most OLD's only offer price breaks on full sets and when sold independent I ask, how is the Mach 1, 1.00 more than the others? I know I know...... don't preach on that. He's doing Lastly, I challenge the "car guy" perception. Of all the OLD's I have known and worked with maybe 20% were "car guys". The others were better classified as speculators or scalpers who ligitimized themselves to the point that they kept what they wanted or sold off the cream for high profit and used the rest to subsidize more purchases. When that dried up then they went away. Those who were car guys that did it for collectors are sadly long gone. What does it all mean? This........
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| Lpgeoteacher | Feb 8 2008, 09:27 PM Post #18 |
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SUV
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I'm feelin "Festive! |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Feb 9 2008, 12:47 AM Post #19 |
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SUV
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Hey, Chris, good to see you here
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| Swifty | Feb 9 2008, 01:49 AM Post #20 |
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
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Agreed!
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| Sak | Feb 10 2008, 08:38 AM Post #21 |
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Ezekiel 25:17
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My bottom line... I'm tired of endless variations on old tooling. I'm not spending four and a half bucks on yet another variation. At one time, shopping for JLs would provide for a sublime surprise. Now, I'm assured of just more variations. It's not what it was. And that's a shame. |
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2:18 PM Jul 11
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2 bowties, 1 Mopar, 1 FOMOCO in every issue works for me.
throw in a bug or 2 every 6 months
and



2:18 PM Jul 11