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| Got my disappointing Hudson today. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 18 2008, 06:32 PM (1,539 Views) | |
| Lovemy1971Camaro | Mar 18 2008, 06:32 PM Post #1 |
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Speed Junkie
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With the "prototype chassis".. I haven't removed it from the package but it looks like it has a plastic base.. I'm not sure about the axles either. It almost strikes me as the old Racing Champions design. What a bunch of crap.
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| jedimario | Mar 18 2008, 06:45 PM Post #2 |
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RAWR
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Ya never know...I've seen metal that looks like plastic and vice versa as well from HW. |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Mar 18 2008, 06:49 PM Post #3 |
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SUV
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Mark#10 over on HT said it was plastic. I ordered one anyway. I like the casting...just so long as the plastic doesn't become a habit on anything other than the first runs. Still a bit disapointing. |
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| Lovemy1971Camaro | Mar 18 2008, 06:51 PM Post #4 |
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Speed Junkie
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You can bet if we're seeing it now, we'll be seeing it A LOT more in the future.. My question (actually Swifty's) is.. What's the difference between this casting and the old Racing Champions casting. I don't know. A painted grille? |
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| Supraman | Mar 18 2008, 06:56 PM Post #5 |
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Swifty's @Work Alter Ego
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The beginning of the end for the JL line? 1. JLs have always stressed metal bases. 2. All metal construction translates to faster gravity racers. 3. A lot of JL-only collectors associate metal bases with quality. |
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| Lovemy1971Camaro | Mar 18 2008, 07:01 PM Post #6 |
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Speed Junkie
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I'm sure this is done to squeeze every last drop of profit out of the Johnny Lightning line even at the expense of their quality. So what will be next? Plastic bodies as well? It'll be a sad day for the Johnny Lightning collector when that happens. Oh how far they've fallen. :flamewar: |
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| James | Mar 18 2008, 07:07 PM Post #7 |
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Mr.Bowtie
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here is a link to the pic Milezone's posted over at JLTalk http://jltalk.com/index.php?showtopic=2565 I did not know whether I could import the pic |
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| STUTZ | Mar 18 2008, 07:54 PM Post #8 |
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Diecast junkie
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I won't worry about finding one if it has a plastic chassis.
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| craftymore | Mar 18 2008, 08:04 PM Post #9 |
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Support your local demo derby.
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So if JL puts plastic bases on select models, does this mean the prices drop any since they are replacing parts with cheaper materials? |
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| Supraman | Mar 18 2008, 08:17 PM Post #10 |
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Swifty's @Work Alter Ego
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No- they'll point to declining sales to retailers due to their expanded price point so they're trying to reduce costs instead of raising their prices higher to cover their own increasing costs. |
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| jedimario | Mar 18 2008, 08:25 PM Post #11 |
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RAWR
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If it somehow translates to lower prices, I think they will be ok with plastic bases. Otherwise, the die-hard JL collectors are going to start moving away from a line that has already drawn a lot of criticism recently. What a shame, they were just coming back. |
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| craftymore | Mar 18 2008, 10:50 PM Post #12 |
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Support your local demo derby.
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Heres my constructive criticism of the way I view things: Should we see more cost saving measures from JL, then what is the point in paying premium prices for these pieces of diecast? The quality and metal bases is what attracted me to JL at a time period when MB had not put out a decent diecast in half a dozen years and HWs was only doing toon cars. Then we had few choices in the market and JL was the best value by far giving collectors stock vehicles that resembled their 1:1 version and featured rubber tires, realistic rims, painted on chrome, and metal bases, some of which were painted in the normal releases. Now the market is as crowded as ever with MB putting out high quality castings for $0.97 and others like GL and M2 who seem to be filling the role that JL once soley had. Should these cost saving measures continue, I feel that JLs will be sold only online or perhaps not at all. People have been predicting the downfall of JL for several years now. I for one have not believed it till the begginning of this year. The only true new series put out in my county so far is the Classic Plastic release 2. Everything else has been pegwarmers left from last fall. Mabye I'm wrong and LC2 is making a killing off of JLs. They have tried to follow trends such as the 1/50 release of foose and tagging behind the fresh cherries by releasing the rehased RC pacer. Putting 12 year old RC castings into JL blisters and selling them for $4-5 seems unreasonable at best. I do like the Tucker casting as no one else has done it in small scale. That I do appreciate. With that said, why couldn't they have redone the casting so that it fits into scale with other cars from the time period? If we are going to pay premium prices for premium diecast, then let's see new castings of the Tucker, 1968 Chevelle, and '05 Mustang. The current batch of new castings are ones that I feel will or are doing very well. Look at the 1973 Chevy Caprice Wagon. It's sold out over on Milezone and most OLDs. I'd suspect similar success with the IH Scout as well as no one else has even attempted such castings in the modern times of diecast. I'll be waiting in the coming months to see what direction JL goes into from here. Their castings are still my favorite among all brands offered in small scale. With this said, I'd like to quote a lyric from The Doors classic Roadhouse Blues, "The future's uncertain and the end is always near." I apoligize for the long rant and for going off topic of the thread. This is just the way I feel now about JL. If I didn't like Johnnies, I would not have put such effort into a post. Zach |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Mar 18 2008, 11:50 PM Post #13 |
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SUV
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I've got a feeling that the rumor from last year about the dollar JL line might still be in the works. I doubt RC2 is going to switch entirely to plastic. With the line moving in a better direction than last year, it wouldn't make sense to change over to plastic with companies like GL doing metal bases. GL would become the fan favorite, and JL would have to weather yet another transitory state to see if the line was at all to continue. Granted, when it comes to corporate chuckleheads, anything is possible. But it doesn't quite feel right to me, or make good business sense, any way I look at it right now. If they wanted to diversify, and give us a secondary, cheaper line for retail purposes so they could compete with Mattel, that would make better sense. And I have a feeling if the same castings were used, and they looked nice, they would sell on a small card alongside HWs and MB like hot cakes. In fact, the quality of the castings would generate more interest in the product, and in the adult line. That to me, makes a certain sense, not changing the entire line when it's selling, getting some good word of mouth, and possitive PR. You diversify, find ways to expand a good thing, or scrap it if it's not working...that's the corporate mind. Not tinkering a thing to death. |
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| jedimario | Mar 18 2008, 11:56 PM Post #14 |
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RAWR
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I think that people have been looking at the distribution problem and saying that JL has gone down the crapper just for that. I take one look at some of the more recent releases and think wow, this stuff is pretty good. Of course, I can't find much of it at retail, but that doesn't mean it's bad. Distribution is a problem, but we shouldn't harp the entire shebang for it. I mean, Road Trip, Lightning Rods, Modern Muscle, Auction Insanity, American Chrome, Pony Power, Dukes...I personally like most of this stuff. Distribution and price are the problems. Perhaps selection as well, but not in my eyes. I suppose I do have atypical taste compared to others in the hobby though. |
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| jedimario | Mar 19 2008, 12:01 AM Post #15 |
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RAWR
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If they stoop down to that level, they will have to start being kid-oriented at some level...plastic, fast rolling tires, outlandish designs, major decrease in quality, ect. They might be able to go the way of MB instead, but how much more MBs do we need? I find myself buying way too many of them as it is. I think it could work, but kids would have to pick up the slack where the adults have been displeased. |
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| Swifty | Mar 19 2008, 02:15 AM Post #16 |
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
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Wow, lots of great discussion on this one! As well there should be! Plastic bases have never meant much to me one way or the other. The other brands have them, and I buy them, so what's the big deal. That's my line of thinking towards my own collection. The problem being that Johnny Lightning has always emphasized all metal construction, with Racer's Edge wheels for fast gravity track cars. Plastic bases means less weight and less speed down the track. People expect metal bases on JLs and a switch to plastic bases, even on one car, is going to turn a lot of people off. This is such a switch from the PM days, where an entirely clear Aston Martin (clear body, base, tires, interior, rims, etc.) was developed for the James Bond range but was rejected due to the plastic content, and the possibility such a car could cheapen the range. Something like that I think collectors would have eaten up- I know I would have! What it comes down to is that if they aren't even going to give it a metal base any more, it's just the same old Racing Champions casting it was ten years ago. A good casting, do doubt, but a tired one nonetheless. The Pacer was mentioned, and I like the RC Pacer (with the exception of the hood opening the wrong way!), and I feel the JL version of the casting has made it look odd (well, odder than even the Pacer should look!). The hood lines are huge, but the hood no longer even opens! Would it have killed them to just retool the hinges on the hood while they were tweaking the casting? |
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| Swifty | Mar 19 2008, 02:22 AM Post #17 |
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
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One thing I've always felt is that companies known for quality should stick to quality. Raise the price if you must (inflation- everything goes up) but don't sacrifice the quality. I can think of a number of companies (Burger King with their Whopper comes to mind right away) that I've given up on due to sacrificing quality in order to make a specific price point. A lot of people complain about the quality of a Hot Wheels car they buy for a buck and how it doesn't match the ones from forty, thirty, twenty, or even ten years ago. Well of course it doesn't- they've sacrificed quality through the years to maintain a sub $1 price point. Same with Matchbox. It's why they lost metal bases, opening features, and even fully tampoed bodies years ago. JL has always been about the quality... slashing quality to meet a price point is insane for a company like JL. They're not going to get an impulse buy from a parent at $4.50 when a Hot Wheels costs $.99. JL collectors crave quality, and while there's always some complaining about high prices, we want quality more than we want cheap prices. If not, we would have stopped buying them years ago when the price went over $3.00. |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Mar 19 2008, 01:29 PM Post #18 |
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SUV
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I've been thinking about this from a different POV. What if the distribution problem comes from the retail end? Think about it, we've beaten up RC2, but stores like WM and Target aren't going to court a diecast company, unless sales are extremely good, and the price is cheap enough to move them along. I mean, isn't that what retail is all about? Now, take the price increase. For better or worse, inflation or not, it's there. If WM has excess HWs, they can toss them in a bin at half price and still make a little profit at those prices. But even in the PM days, at around $3 a pop, did we see the same type of practice? Once a product goes beyond that dollar range, it can't be cost effective to cut the price in half. Even retail JLs go for around three and change. So what would you do if you were running the JL line? It has to make money. It has to compete with the other companies out there. Sure, it's one spoke in the wheel of LC, but how do you get the larger chain stores to take a bigger piece? One way would be to cut prices. But when have you known big business to admit they might have been wrong, or not justified in pricing? Throw that idea out the window and what's left? Doing just what they are doing now with the OLDs and a dedicated toy store like TRU is one thing. And if demand grows, so do the numbers. But if the demand doesn't grow in a hurry, or reach expected levels, two choices are left to a corporation: Drop the line, or change it to make it fit into the niche created by current retail. And let me tell you, retail policies are growing pretty weird. Forget about dollar JL's, that was top of the head thinking and is flawed. If a line of JLs is released that is will fit into chain store policies, I think it will be more along the $3 range. This says, I'm a step above the kiddie cars, and undercuts Jada and GL in cost. And if a part of the product has to be cut for cost, it's going to be the base. It's practically a third of the metal used, or better. Now, I still don't say they're going to make all the cars with plastic bases. They have established a market for the current line. But this expansion, or secondary line has been talked about. What can we expect if it comes to pass? A second RC line for sure. More retooled or older castings used. A part of the line that will deffinitly have to be placed next to HWs in the racing field. Those are some of the cons. What about pros? More product at cheaper prices is one. More of the retail dicast dollar spent on other brands will go back into the JL line, thus, bolstering it's continuation. And if that means keping the all metal line going as well, might we not have our cake and eat it as well? Or maybe a better question is: Should LC be allowed to have their cake? The metal bases are one of the reasons I started collecting JL as well. But if something like this happens, we all have a choice as to whether we buy the secondary line, buy just the metal bases, or buy both. Most people say they buy whatever brands catch their eye, plastic or not. Would this scenario really change that, or just give us more diecast to choose from? |
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| craftymore | Mar 19 2008, 08:33 PM Post #19 |
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Support your local demo derby.
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Dragnet makes some really good points that I have overlooked. This is a two way street and Wally World has not gone out of their way to move JLs off the pegs by upping the price to $4.44 and higher. If JL puts cars in the basic JL line with plastic parts and charges normal prices, then I don't believe that's a smart move. If they did use plastic AND lowered prices to compete in a different price range, then that might be sustainable in finding a new market to compete in. Collectors could get castings they want at a lower price. Good comments by dragnet! |
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| James | Mar 19 2008, 08:50 PM Post #20 |
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Mr.Bowtie
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If what Dragnet says comes to be and we have a replacement or another line of JL at a reduced cost. This Prototype Chassis Hornet may become a very much sought after issue, as it would be the first. Making me rethink my abhorence to chrome cars and plastic bases on quality and pricey makes. Hey they could make the bases of HW's and MB's out of cardboard and if the casting is what I am looking for and for a buck, I'd still buy. But at 4.92 a pop, I want some quality, and metal bases is a sign of quality in my eyes
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| accobra64 | Mar 19 2008, 09:03 PM Post #21 |
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Minivan
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Well stated, Swifty. If plastic bases are the way of the future, my days of purchasing the new (with plastic base) JL castings will be over. I do hope that this was an one time rush to market mistake. While on the subject of castings, I'm not too thrilled with RC2/Learning Curve Brands using the old Racing Champions castings and branding them Johnny Lightning castings. Is this what you call jerkization? Racing Champion bodies, then wheels/tires, and then plastic bases??? Then just junk with the JL name? Not for me! And concerning the Pacer, that was a huge mistake. I don't like it and won't buy it. Another peg warmer for the year 2008? Time will tell. Cheers. Cobra |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Mar 20 2008, 06:43 PM Post #22 |
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SUV
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Well, after all the speculation and worry, it looks like the plastic base used on this casting was just a factory error. And instead of wasting material, Tom Z. told them to go ahead with it. The next release will be metal
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| craftymore | Mar 20 2008, 08:20 PM Post #23 |
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Support your local demo derby.
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I don't like it. I do. I don't like it. I do. So the Hudson will be a collectors item uh? LOL |
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| James | Mar 20 2008, 08:25 PM Post #24 |
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Mr.Bowtie
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Either a collectors item , or a massive peg warmer, or an epay oddity, or business as usual, or, or, or, Its not a Chevy, its Chrome, its not here right now, sooner or later I end up buying pretty well all the jl's that show up here in S'side, it has a plastic base, but its a Hudson and I don't have any Hudsons except mattel's Doc Hudson, ahhhhhhhhhhh, choices choices choices :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: |
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| James | Mar 20 2008, 08:30 PM Post #25 |
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Mr.Bowtie
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I rather like the little Pacer issue, but then I like the AMC stuff. ANd you must admit Johnny's Gremlin was excellent. But you can't make every issue a track car.
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