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| What should JL do, realistically? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 10 2009, 11:56 AM (2,540 Views) | |
| James | Dec 23 2009, 07:35 PM Post #26 |
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Mr.Bowtie
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To all of those who posted here, I appreciate all the comment, good fodder for JL/RC management if they can read at all. |
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| Supraman | Dec 23 2009, 07:49 PM Post #27 |
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Swifty's @Work Alter Ego
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It would be great to have Tom Z.'s input on the forum, but I'm not sure he even knows the Garage exists. Bear in mind that if a forum is openly hostile to the representatives of a company they may not want to participate. We've had a lot of constructive criticism (and a lot of speculation) in this thread, and in the JL forum itself for the last year or so. Frustration is running high as long time JL collectors feel shafted. What I do appreciate is that it has been constructive criticism, and no one has gotten out of hand and really flamed the company. |
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| accobra64 | Dec 23 2009, 10:38 PM Post #28 |
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Minivan
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Swifty, you don't bite the hand of the one that will hopefully feed you on occasion. I won't flame LCB because I still believe that there is hope. I also believe that Tom Zahorsky cares about us as collectors. I enjoyed your last comments and also those comments by others here. Healthy discussion is always good. And sometimes it helps relieve frustration. Cheers. Cobra |
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| Swifty | Dec 24 2009, 02:11 AM Post #29 |
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
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I do too. And I bet he's as frustrated with the hoops he has to jump through as we are with the lack of product on the shelves! |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Dec 30 2009, 03:55 PM Post #30 |
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SUV
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I don't really know Tom Z., nor have I heard his personal views. I do know that there are people who genuinly care about the work they do in various fields that cannot say or do anything against the "hand that feeds them." If Mr. Z. is one of these people, I feel he must be quite frustrated to be in a position he may care about, and not be able to risk the loss off his job in the current economy. Whether this is so or not, others will have to say, since I have nothing but his word on the boards to go by...and not even a great deal of that. I do not belong to JL Talk, nor have I read everything he has posted over at HT when he seemed to be posting there for a time. He did say in one of my posts that he would be happy to answer any of my questions, but the post itself became edited for some reason (probably because the mods feared driving Mr. Z. away if I became too blunt). And so I decided not to pursue opening up any sort of communication with him. Personally, I would never blatantly flame anyone, anywhere. I have been wrong before, and it seems even recently I was wrong about suspecting LC of being behind the price increase at WM. However, it seems that M2s were also raised in price at WM...so I freely admit my conclusions there were wrong. On the other hand, when things do not add up from a particular company over a prolonged period of time, it needs to think about the answers it gives to the public. Speculation, on the other hand, is inevitable. I suppose we would all like to see JL succeed...otherwise why come to this board and speculate at all? LC has an array of great castings from JL, and RC...which already have dies equipped with plastic bases. I feel there is little reason for them not to have a more varied line (or lines). I feel they could have those lines with both metal and plastic bases. I think they could diversify with adult and children's diecast cars. Some will boo this, but hey, the plastic bases are here, like it or not. Everyone is struggling to make money in the current economy (or at least, struggling compared to what most corporations had gotten used to pulling in during years past). Here's an idea, and it fits with whatever budget LC is allowing for their current JL line, and it fits in with the limited casting as well. The thing is, it'll only work if they use the boards to their advantage, and are sincere about putting the profits into restoring the line to include more castings and/or metal bases as well as plastic. It would only take Tom Z., or any other employee of LC, the time it would take to put together one post per month...and circulate that post among the various boards. Of course, they would have to read the responses. The post would be in the form of interative suggestions. For example, we know what the current JL line up has consisted of for castings. How about a pole on which ones that collectors would like to see in color schemes never done before? BWFs, or police cars for example. How about asking which, out of a preselected number of castings, we would like to see ressurected for the current line? Even if it was for just one or two cars per release, or a collector's choice limited series to see how successful it might be. This would give the company something that many corporations are lacking right now...a user friendly face. People are tired of swallowing whatever is thrown to them, or having all their choices made by folks they feel have no understanding of their needs and wants. People want to feel someone is kind enough to listen when they speak constructively. At one time, this would've required any company to take on extra man power to visit stores and hobby shops. But the internet has made it very easy for anyone who wants to intereact with their fans and patrons. And wouldn't Tom Z.'s time be better spent on such posts? He's regularly on some of the board anyway. Or would he rather just read all the blather and speculation...trying to decide which boards might be open to hearing him and which might try to eat him alive...UHG! This is time that could be much better spent. Of course, LC would have to be receptive. Or at least give Tom permission to have an open ear. I mean, come on...all the companies have people who read the boards and sit back and speculate themselves on what they are going to do for the future. Isn't business itself a form of speculation, hoping they know what product is going to sell, and to whom? Bridge the gap, people. What have you got to lose, except a boat load of speculation on both side of this river. Nuff said. Edited by Dragnet_Supporter, Dec 30 2009, 04:04 PM.
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| James | Dec 30 2009, 10:07 PM Post #31 |
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Mr.Bowtie
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Nice thoughts Dragnet, MrZ. hangs out at JLTalk often, I suppose the nature of the beast is JLtalk is a very supportive and receptive place for a Johnny Lightning employee to hang out at. And several times this past year or so suggestions from the rank and file at Wyatt's place have been implemented into the lineup. Case in point was the return of Jairus designed paint schemes, albeit there has been only one so far, And I personally hope that it will not be the only one. I don't know if Mr.Z visits Swifty's, I do not see his name as a member here. Perhaps if Sean sent him a personal invitation, I don't know. We are a very personable bunch here, ranging from hardcore diecast addicts to just serious diecast fans. And we all coexist very well here and support each others collecting habits and pecidillos. Personally I wouldn't hang around a place that dissed me or my product. I have left a few forums because of negativity, I get enough of it in my real life to have to put up with it in my hobby. But enough about me. I like your suggestions and have often thought diecast manufacturers should regularly visit the forums to get a snapshot of how thier products are recieved. There are serious collectors here who not only buy a copy of almost all the castings in their collecting genre but often buy several copies of castings that particularily appeal to them. (a serious example right here would be Mr.Tilley, who searches out and actively collects any any and all paint shades and variations of Matchbox castings). We have Sean from M2 and a marketing rep from Greenlight who regularily visit here, Mr.Z would be a major asset. One of the best things about Swiftys place is that truth reigns supreme, what sucks, sucks and what is worthy of note is praised up and down. And in addition to that is we as members respect and support the collecting habits of the others. AN example of that would be when one member admits he likes the Hot Seat and Grocery Cart castings by HW, we accept that, we might go "nah, pass on that" or not say anything but we don't diss the member or dis that casting, we often tease or bait the member, as in "well of coarse he like the HoT Seat and Grocery Cart, he likes Mustangs as well" . Anyway to cut to the chase "If I was a diecast company's employee, I would regularily visit as many boards as I could to understand and be able to formulate a business plan for my company from the opinions I see expressed on these Forums. " JL seems to be everyone's whipping boy these past couple of years, perhaps it is because we are witnessing some strange and bewildering things happening there and their casting release schedule and availability has seriously deteriorated over the same time, but remember Matchbox was almost written off by the collecting community a few years ago and now they are back in contention with the premium priced guys by issuing some beautiful castings. And their price point has remained more or less the same. Or perhaps JL celebrated the 40th so seriously because IMHO the way they are going there will be no 50th. AT least not for Canada, as 1 by 1 the places to but Johnnies go away.
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Dec 30 2009, 11:00 PM Post #32 |
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SUV
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James, I think you summed up the spirit of the Garage very well. In fact, that's why I've stayed on here, even if it meant posting minimally, during much needed breaks from diecast forum overload. Sean has put together a site that never seems to overload me. That may be my personal opinion, but it seems to be shared by a lot of folks here. Kudos to Sean, and a personal thank you to boot. I suppose i really should get over to JLTalk one of these days. It's nothing personal, I've just tried to keep my board time to certain limits...most of the time. I do go a bit crazy at other times though, and dread to think what that might mean if I started posting on a third forum (HT being the other). But to address your comments, and hopefully add to them, James...I've often thought that most corporations could do a lot worse if they hired someone (even if it was for minimal wages) to sit at home and monitor the boards. They would be a sort of spokesperson for the company, collecting information that could serve the company. I believe Marvel Comics had such a person back in the days before message boards and chatrooms became the rage. He would actually drive around and visit comic shops, talking with owners and customers about what sparked interest and what didn't. Of course, this became something that was not considered cost offective over time, but as I said in my previous post, the internet minimizes those costs pretty effectively these days. And how many collectors wouldn't mind taking on a job they are already doing by scanning the boards and getting paid to collect opinions? Of course, if Tom Z. became such a person to the boards in general (much as Sean over at M2 is doing), that would be a plus. I talked with Sean once when I called about a damaged car i purchased, and it was very nice to hear his enthusiasm. he even trusted me with a secret or two that was then to be a then up-and-coming release: the M2 muscle cars. I understand the same rules probably do not apply over at LC, however, it's the spirit that matters. An extended hand (or as I mentioned before, a user friendly face) can go a long way. It would be understandable if they tried it for a time and got flamed constantly, that they chose not to post on certain boards. But I don't believe most people would blast anyone for giving such an endeavor an honest try...although I understand there would always be a few bad apples. That's to be expected. But it doesn't mean they have to respond to those particular posts...and hey, that's what mods are for, to help eliminate those situations before they get too crazy. I think a personal invitation by Sean just might be a good idea. Of course, we need to get his thoughts on the matter. |
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| Swifty | Dec 31 2009, 03:34 AM Post #33 |
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
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And many years back, in the Playing Mantis era, JL did just that. Unfortunately that was before my time but I do remember the input we saw from Jeff Koch, Hot Rod Al, PMS485, and more. And I also remember reading their posts with high hopes and lots of anticipation for hints of what might be coming down the line. And that's something I like about M2 and GreenLight currently offering their input here and on other forums. I don't get over to JL Talk as often as I'd like to, but I enjoy reading what Tom Z. has to say there when I do visit. And I love the fact that he picked up on the suggestions for a demo derby car theme! That made my day. I also must thank both of you for the kind words about the Garage. We have a great membership here, and while criticism is encouraged (if deserved), attacking is not allowed. And I can't remember the last time I had to edit a post that was too harsh towards a company. I haven't had the pleasure of getting to know Tom Z., but I would definitely like to extend an invitation for him to join us over here if he would like to! |
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| rlyoung | Dec 31 2009, 10:55 AM Post #34 |
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Station Wagon
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Yes it would be great if RC2 had someone to monitor the boards and get feedback from the members. But you have to remember they are a large company and JL is a very small part of it, trailing Thomas (with his lead paint issues again) and all the baby products. GL and M2 are small companies which makes it easier for collector comments to be reviewed. It would be nice to see JL as the great line of cars they once were but I don't see that happening while under the RC2 ownership. |
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| jedimario | Dec 31 2009, 11:34 AM Post #35 |
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RAWR
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I started thinking about answers to these question, and then I realized that my answer to the last one is an unquestionable no. I'm not sure I ever would have cared. JL has always either been overpriced or been lacking in anything that interests me. The new line is at a great price point, and I don't care about plastic bases, but I just couldn't care less about most of the cars offered. The two exceptions (Viper ACR and Hornet police car) weren't even buyable for me because of the wheels. I have not bought a JL at MSRP for at least a year. I probably haven't paid MSRP for more than 10 JLs in my entire life. They offered the same thing everything else does at the same price with inferior quality for years, and now that they're a decent deal it's just the same washed up models that I would already own (not the JL versions, one from the 5 other brands that have the same car) if I had wanted them a few years ago. Why should I have bought more? There's exceptions to that, of course, but not enough. Wouldn't miss them, never would have. |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Dec 31 2009, 03:47 PM Post #36 |
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SUV
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One more thought I had, in the form of a suggestion. This may be giving away trade secrets on some level, but it’s a fairly common practice in many industries that have something they want to sell well. It’s a promotional tactic that is used to spread word of mouth. Word of mouth can sell a lot of product. I’m coming from my little corner of the entertainment industry, and there are any number of folks on these boards who know better about the workings of the diecast industry. However, I’ll attempt to throw the scales off a few innocent eyes by making known a few tricks that might seem unscrupulous to some. For all intents and purposes, I’ll use the publishing industry as my example. Book publishers, like diecast companies, have had their reps, who work as liaisons between publishers and book stores. What some of these reps have done in the past is call a particular book store and say, “How many copies of so-and-so’s book sold this week?” One the store has given them a sales figure, the rep would then ask, “What other books have sold more copies this week?” The store might name a couple of titles. The rep would then say, “Okay, the you’ve got this book as your number three best selling book of the week.” The store agrees. The rep then call another store, saying, “So-and-so has this book as number three in sales this week. How is it doing in your store?” The store then has to look up the figures. And even if that book isn’t doing as well for them, it raises a flag that generates a certain buzz about the book. This has been done by larger publishing firms, and not just for big name writers. Of course, even if there were only a few new titles hitting the shelves the particular time the book was released, and our book came in at number three out of five or six books, well, timing can be a big part of anything. Dishonest? There’s a kind of famous story about a rep who managed to get a book on the best seller list before the book even hit the stands by making his phone calls a bit prematurely. This has been used not only for books, but for box offices after movies are released, openings of Broadway shows, etc… Applying that tactic to say, the JL Forever 64 release…what if one OLD had F64 come in as their number three seller out of five releases that came in during the same week? Then suppose word was spread in the above stated manner. Do you think it would generate curiosity? Would people talk? Are the LC reps generating sufficient hype about their product? Would such hype increase sales, thereby increasing production numbers enough to get product into more stores? Take the idea for what it’s worth. Take it any way you want to. But one thing you need to keep in mind. It doesn’t matter if you are a best selling author, large company or small. Your name might be Tom Z., or Joe Blow starting out a first time diecast company on a shoestring budget. The one thing you can’t be is innocent in any business venture. Whether you write a book or design toy cars that any company is putting out, you have to take it upon yourself to promote what you are doing. Stephen King might get his company behind him and be willing to give his project a big push. The rest of us have to work in order to get people’s attention. We need to give whatever we do in our little corner of the universe--be it designer or rep--one-hundred and ten percent. So if Tom Z. and the LC reps aren’t good at selling themselves and their product, then they need to get good at it if they want to survive in the current market. |
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| VelocityArts | Jan 7 2010, 11:06 PM Post #37 |
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Microcar
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Interesting post. My quickie take on things: 1) I think the JL product has died a slow death - I don't even look for it in the stores any longer (distribution sucks more than it ever had). That the product has cheapened somewhat regarding quality and finish. That this supposed lower price (2-3 bucks) just another shell game (esp when compared to the very good quality and detail you can find in under a buck brands like HW and MB). Not talking a good game either - I don't buy JL product any longer. Tom Z and company have ruined the brand. Keep up the good board Sean. I would rather an honest opinion board to the sing, dance, shill and cheer "church of JL" boards any day. Don't change a thing! Peter Edit: Comments regarding what is/isn't allowed on other forums is not allowed here. Edited by Swifty, Jan 11 2010, 05:26 AM.
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| James | Jan 8 2010, 07:44 AM Post #38 |
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Mr.Bowtie
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My Walmart which is the only place in town that used to carry JL's, is finally out of the Lightning Rods that have heated up the pegs for the last year. The the pegs that held them disappeared and are now infested with Jada products albeit with no price tags on the pegs. Thats is the bad news The good news is that in the retooling of teh toy department which is happening now, the new plans show 3 pegs are available for JL's as Forever 64 at $2.92 each. So I am patiently holding my breathe, I am under the opinion that JL's at 3$ is good for the business, a business that was dying a slow death at a 5$ price point, I will buy many more JL's at 3$ then at 5$. Do teh math. Unfortunately what they deliver for 3$ you can surpass by switching to the comp. Much of the comp at a 3$ price point is quality wise better, and also variety wise better, so JL/RC has their work cut out for them. I also believe the trips into the archive vault for older ERTL castings is a good thing for them to do, it adds to the variety of an otherwise staler lineup path that JL was stumbling down. IMHO 2010 will be a rough year for premium diecast. and teh best year for HW and MB diecast as the first waves are already here. And I am up to date on those aquisistions. I am livin' the dream and lovin' it. |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Jan 8 2010, 01:31 PM Post #39 |
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SUV
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What an opening line, James. It would be hilarious, if it was at the same time pathetic. As far as the older RC castings--I really don't mind seeing them, I just wish they would leave well enough alone and quite welding all the trunks shut. In fact, back when this plastic based line was first discussed, I mentioned why not just put out the older RC castings exclusively for that line? They already have plastic bases. The opening trunk feature is nice--and it's something no one else seems to be doing in 1/64 scale right now. And since they were clouding the JL line with these castings anyway, why not make more efficient use of product on hand and leave the metal besed JL stuff alone? This notion was either lost in cyber-space, or too simplistic for more daring minds, however.And you're right. JL at $3 is going to have a tough time, considering what we're seeing from Mattel for $1.07, NY state tax included. MB is looking very sharp these days, and continues to sharpen their line, as far as I'm concerned. And I've seen some pretty nice muscle cars hanging on the pegs under the HWs banner as well. If JLs plastic based line came out for about $1, as originally discussed--if memory serves--I think they could possibly give their competition a run for the money. Provided they could get their product on the pegs. Provided they had half as much variety to their casting as--ah. skip it. I believe, at least in part, LC went for a higher price than Mattel, yet trying to come in lower than GL, M2, or even Jada, is because they hoped to fit a certain budget and class all their own. But it's not working. Mattel outdistances them in price and variety, and if you want realism and variety, most people would rather spend a couple extra bucks on the GLs and M2s. I suppose the biggest question might be, why is JL trying to specialize in a market where they aren't offering all that much? They might as well go back to the metal bases, supe up the cars with better desings, and slap a $10 price tag on them like Mattel used to do. But even then we must ask, What are you putting into your cars the competition is not? No matter how you slice it, JL is getting smoked
Edited by Dragnet_Supporter, Jan 8 2010, 01:44 PM.
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| Swifty | Jan 9 2010, 02:57 AM Post #40 |
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
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But JL isn't getting smoked. I have two of the Walmarts that actually keep getting in assortments of JLs. And they keep blowing off the shelves (and not always to me!). So they're selling in the stores they're in, and that's a good sign. We've gotten anywhere from 4-6 of the same assortments and yet there are zero pegwarmers (even the gray "black" with flames Olds is long gone though that one stuck around the longest). I'd be interested to hear how they're doing in other parts of the country and at retailers other than Walmart. |
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| ivantt | Jan 9 2010, 04:38 PM Post #41 |
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New casting? Quick! Take it apart!
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Sean: Thanks to the reappearance of JL at the Walmart close to where I work, (I am in it everyday), I have bought more JL's this past 6 months than the past 6 years. At first they were 1.96, then jumped to $3, now back to $2 But the stock DOES move, and there have been many restockings and pegs being emptied. So someone, other than me IS buying them here, too. BUT, I was a little surprised that after visiting several other Walmarts, they didn't even STOCK the JL's! So people from other parts of the city may be buying up the ones sold at my regular location. So, once again, there is that distriubution problem that seems to be an enigma of JL---this time within the same chain, within the same city! Unbelievable! You know I buy multiples of cars I like, and I think many serious collectors also do this. That has to be a marketing factor, or at least I hope the bean counters do consider this. And I agree with a lot that JEDIMARIO has said above, a lot of JL's are simply bad castings, and I just never could understand the blind loyalty of JL Fans who revelled in each release So I just never was a big purchaser because I had to buy ugly castings of cars I happened to like. What they are offering now is visually acceptable and at a better price. That is a good start for a comeback. Metal bases are not going to make or break their success. Let's see what the situation is a few months from now. |
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| Sak | Jan 10 2010, 06:49 PM Post #42 |
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Ezekiel 25:17
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Describes me to a 't'. I remember several years ago, my experience in getting blasted by the groupies for having suggested that things weren't as great as they believed. Now, all these folks offer the dulcet tones of crickets. There were the glory days under Tom Lowe. And there's what you have there now. For the prices they charge for the product, this is indeed shameful. |
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Jan 11 2010, 11:16 PM Post #43 |
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SUV
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When the 40th line first appeared, my local WM got a case here and there. For a breif time, it seemed that they replaced whatever was sold from the pegs with a new case about every week or so. And yeah, the were gone within a couple of days. It was sort of funny that they never had an official peg, though. They were hung on an M2 peg with a much higher price listed above them. Talk about distribution issues/WM insanity. Suddenly, after the second or third release, maybe, my WM never got a single case. Now I see them turn up only at TRU. They never sell out as quickly, and there's generally a peg hanger or two left over weeks later from the case. So around here, they are still selling fairly well, when they show up. But it's a lot slower mover than they were back in the beginning. Although Ive heard others say they are moving quickly in their areas. Conclusion: they would sell more cars if they got them back on the pegs more frequently. But this slower movement of sales than the initial runs, might just mean that if they were available everywhere, people might not be snatching them up so quickly anywhere. Of course, that's just speculation, but it's at least based on the average of my locality, mixed with several other report of the cars of the cars selling quickly. It makes me think of the stores shortly after the relaunch by RC2. The couple of pegs available sold almost overnight at WM. Then quite a few cars showed up at TRU at one point. Then WM didn't carry then any more. And TRU had a lot of peg warmers. Do I spot a familiar pattern here? Edited by Dragnet_Supporter, Jan 11 2010, 11:21 PM.
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| rlyoung | Jan 12 2010, 12:50 AM Post #44 |
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Station Wagon
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I couldn't tell you how well they sell at the WMs around here because they don't have them. The closest WM to me that I've found them at is at least 45 minutes away and not somewhere I usually go. The TRUs around here always seem to have plenty and that's where I've bought the majority of the new style JLs that I own which isn't many. |
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| juantoo3 | Jan 22 2010, 11:26 AM Post #45 |
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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I'm not much of a baseball fan, but I know its been said before: Babe Ruth didn't hit a home run every time he came to bat...not only was he the home run king, he was also the strike out king. Something to consider.
This is a separate issue altogether.
Always. What on earth makes you think the manufacturer *tells* any retailer what to charge for their product? That only happens when governments run businesses, and I think there are plenty of historic examples of how disastrous that is.
Again an unrelated issue. People have been hoarding since squirrels were invented and selling at inflated prices has been around since there has been commerce. What do you think drives the obscene aftermarket prices for White Lightnings and all other chase cars? The manufacturers? Hardly. I understand frustration with the hobby, even with the JL brand. But I think it does us all well to maintain our focus. Everybody wants a scapegoat, sheesh. JL is in a saturated market. They have some serious competition. Yes, I foresee a *very* real possibility that JL could fold, probably no more than two years, if they don't figure out some way to distinguish themselves in the market. The distribution problems seriously compound the matter. And don't get me started on Quality Control. These things *must* be addressed if JL is to survive. Otherwise the tax writeoff is the most likely scenario, and bankruptcy is a real possibility. They need to innovate. If you want to call it "bold designs" or whatever, so be it. But how long can a diecast company survive on a handful of Camaro, Mustang and Corvette castings, doing the same old schtuff over and over and over? Even HW knows it has to kick in a little variety every now and then just to spice up the mix. I hear it a lot, muscle car this and muscle car that, muscle cars are what sells, blah blah blah. That's thinking inside the box. The company needs to start thinking outside of the box. What that means exactly is open to interpretation...but the status quo is not going to save the company. They really, really need to expand their horizons, and more importantly focus on improving what little they have remaining. Otherwise, all is lost, and JL will be an epitaph once again. It's just a matter of time. Edited by juantoo3, Jan 22 2010, 11:38 AM.
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| Dragnet_Supporter | Jan 22 2010, 05:02 PM Post #46 |
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SUV
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Agreed. I suppose what i refered to as bold designs, and what I think they need, is stronger designs. Back in the PM days (and I know everyone harkens back to a time that is no more for every and any reason) the variety of designs varied much more than LC has done. I've refered elsewhere to many of their cars being plain pototoes after the relaunch. There were a number of new companies that had popped up since the PM days, but even those companies gave us more variety...in color schemes, and in castings. If you scroll through any number of series from the days of old, sure they had their strike outs, but you also saw a heck of a lot more series that out of 6 cars, one or two you could live without. LC has done a complete reversal, in that I recall seeing many collectors who couldn't wait for new JL product, then right after the big relaunch, they were choosing one or two winners. The averages might have changed due to many of the newer sets having only 4 cars insted of 6, but that initial enthusiasm was squashed when folks got a look at the product. It was the same castings, yet less so. And this can only be attributed to the LC design team. Bolder desings were indeed needed. I'm just not sure if using HWs type designs as a template for the JL line is the best fit. Mattel has a lot of fantasy cars that fit into a realm beyond bold. But with so many casting, they have something to fit a wide variety of tastes. JL has a fraction of that being used currently. Then again, if you look at MB and the recent attention they've gotten for realism, then LC might even learn something. |
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| Stangfreak | Jan 24 2010, 01:37 AM Post #47 |
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Convertible
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1) With the current limited casting situation, should they not at least be putting in as much effort into the designs, making them shine as much as possible? 2) What would you consider to be better designs? 3) Should there be more realism, or a combination of realism and loud designs? 4) A: If LC made their product available direct sales only through OLDs, will you continue to buy them? B: If you're a hands on collector, would you consider breaking down and ordering them through an OLD if the designs were better and this kept the price down--compared to some WMs that have upped the price? C: Would including chase cars inserted randomly in closed cases once more, and, as they came up in cases while pulling orders for individual cars, add to your ordering habits, or change your mind about ordering from an OLD if you currently do not do so?. 5) If JL went away tomorrow, would you care at this point? Here's my answers: 1) I would think they would and should be putting as much effort as possible !!! 2) The designs have been fine in my book, but they definetly need better paint, detail, wheel & tire selections, and above all, 100% improvement in the quality !!! 3) Loud designs, depends what is meant by "loud designs"... Like I said, designs are fine, but the realism has long gone, and is badly needed to attract real collectors !!! 4) A: I don't know what "OLDS" is... but I will not continue to buy them from anybody with the poor quality and the toyish looking designs, paint, and all around looks !!! B: Won't buy them at all !!! C: Nope, never did go for the chase car stuff... still won't buy them !!! 5) Sorry to say, NO, I wouldn't care at all, but on the other hand, I have been collecting JL for over 20 years and have gotten much enjoyment from them... The were the leaders for many years and still remain tops in variety produced (in there time)... I missed JL a long time ago, so the time has kinda healed... This new stuff is junk all the way to the packaging... The poor, poor quality blew it for me... I think alot of the serious collectors will stop buying them because of what I described, and mommys will not buy them either for their little boys because HWs are only a buck... I don't look for them to be pumping out cars for very much longer !!! I know I'm tired of getting ripped off !!! Edited by Stangfreak, Jan 24 2010, 01:38 AM.
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| Swifty | Jan 24 2010, 01:50 AM Post #48 |
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
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Abbreviation for online dealers like Milezone, 1 Stop, etc. |
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| DaleFan | Jan 24 2010, 04:32 PM Post #49 |
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Midsize
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1) With the current limited casting situation, should they not at least be putting in as much effort into the designs, making them shine as much as possible? Not sure what is meant by "limited casting situation" since Learning Curve has Old Playing Mantis castings, Old Mint Edition Castings, Old Ertl casting in their inventory of possibilities. I see little effort to release themed programs (i.e. country roads, police or emergency ). Color combinations and wheel selection has gone downhill since the 2nd year of RC2 control. Plastic bases and poor quality control has vastly reduced even my purchasing their products 2) What would you consider to be better designs? realistic looking street cars and hot rods. realistic police, fire and emergency vehicles (not gluing a police light on top of a camaro and calling it a police car). More utility trucks that can be used in dioramas. Trailers, Pickup truck campers (like Greenlight just did). 3) Should there be more realism, or a combination of realism and loud designs? realism, let Mattel do what they do best. RC2 hasn't done anything with the Commemorative casting or the Topper casting, but they have blended the sub-par Mint Edition castings into the JL product line. 4) A: If LC made their product available direct sales only through OLDs, will you continue to buy them? hardly unlikely this is going to happen. M2 and Greenlight even sell their $5.-$6 castings at Wal Mart and TRUs B: If you're a hands on collector, would you consider breaking down and ordering them through an OLD if the designs were better and this kept the price down--compared to some WMs that have upped the price? been there done that. It is CHEAPER (in the long run) to buy from ONLINE dealers than to go from store to store every week and find nothing. Buy by the box, sell or trade the ones you don't want to keep. C: Would including chase cars inserted randomly in closed cases once more, and, as they came up in cases while pulling orders for individual cars, add to your ordering habits, or change your mind about ordering from an OLD if you currently do not do so?. these are necessary evils. The Marketing "experts" at the retail level believe the entire product line sells better if "chase" cars exist. However, in my experience the opposite occurs. What happens is the CHASE cars get sold fast, but the rest of the box sits until the re-order point is reached. Online dealers who distribute these CHASE cars without jacking up the price are the ones who get the sales. OneStop, Milezone and some others are examples. Places that pull CHASE cars out and put them directly to eBay or wherever to make excessive profit only shoot themselves in teh foot. While their profit magin may be high for 3-4 cars the might end up having to reduce costs on standard issue cars in order to liquidate slow movers. Thus, pulling down their overall profit on the entire box. 5) If JL went away tomorrow, would you care at this point? From the beginning in 1994, I have always felt that loyalty goes only so far. I lost faith in what RC2 would do when after being told (at Toy Fair) there was going to be NO intermixing of JL castings and Mint Edition casting, they went ahead and did it anyways. Plastic bases, poor workmanship, tires that don't roll or don't fit on the wheels, loose pieces floating around in the un-open blister packs (and so on). Prices going up and quailty going down does not foster LOYALTY in any retail product. |
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| Swifty | Jan 24 2010, 04:49 PM Post #50 |
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
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There was a statement on one of the forums that only certain castings had a plastic base available, hence only those castings were being used in the 40th/Forever 64 lines. So while they have tons of castings available, most of them aren't being considered at the moment. Which is a pity because a little more variety would do wonders for their product range at the moment. |
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2:07 PM Jul 11
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What an opening line, James. It would be hilarious, if it was at the same time pathetic. As far as the older RC castings--I really don't mind seeing them, I just wish they would leave well enough alone and quite welding all the trunks shut. In fact, back when this plastic based line was first discussed, I mentioned why not just put out the older RC castings exclusively for that line? They already have plastic bases. The opening trunk feature is nice--and it's something no one else seems to be doing in 1/64 scale right now. And since they were clouding the JL line with these castings anyway, why not make more efficient use of product on hand and leave the metal besed JL stuff alone? This notion was either lost in cyber-space, or too simplistic for more daring minds, however.





2:07 PM Jul 11