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Who Made This Wonderful Obscure Race Car???
Topic Started: Dec 29 2013, 10:33 PM (1,923 Views)
69Stang
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Station Wagon
Ohh, I know WHAT it is, but no idea who made it! When you talk about obscure diecast castings, this one has to win some sort of a prize! I picked up the car a couple of years ago (I don't remember from who) and have been looking for info on it's origins ever since. Here is hoping that one of you guys will be able to fill in the holes on this unique piece of racing history.

The car it's self is a 1:66 to 1:64 scale replica (and I use that term loosely) of the 1975 Lola T332 Formula 5000 (or Formula A here in the states) driven by Brian Redman. Formula A was one of the first Pro series the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) promoted along side it's CAN-AM and Trans AM series. Formula A was for open wheel single seater cars with a maximum of 5 liters (305 c.i.) stock block engines. While popular both in Europe and Australia / New Zealand, for the USA, these beast represented our version of Formula 1 cars. In fact, an F5000 car was often fasted than Formula 1 rides on shorter, tight tracks thanks to the amazing torque afforded by the large displacement engines.

This particular car represents the 1975 ride of Englishmen Brian Redman who romped through the mid '70's with three constitutive F5000 titles (1974-75-76). Brian drove for the North American Lola importer, Carl Haas and Jim Hall ( of Chaparral fame). The Chevy powered machine shown here is the 1975 ride based on the livery. The car is AWFUL as far as being accurate or even well done, but what a neat piece of history as I was totally smitten with F5000 cars as a kid. OK, pretty much still am!

Any help making out the ID on this car would be so much appreciated. My guess is this was a promo commissioned by sponsor Boraxo (powered hand soap). and MAYBE offered in a package or as a mail in premium. OK, let me here from you guys, your my best chance to put this mystery to bed. In my knowledge, this is the ONLY die cast representation of a Formula 5000 car I have ever seen in a small scale.

Thanks for any help you can provide.
Ward

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Oddly enough, this is the only Image I have taken of the car in all the times I have seen it on track. This was at a vintage meet in 2010.

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Brian in action, circa 1975. From the Classic Motorsports website, no photo credit provided.

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Edited by 69Stang, Dec 30 2013, 07:37 AM.
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Spennyman
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Minivan
Looks kinda hand-crafted. Looks like the wheels are blacked out Hot Wheels blackwalls.
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DaleFan
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Midsize
it's not any Hot Wheels or Matchbox that I've ever seen cast during the time frame the "real" racer competed. Doesn't look like a Tomica. The chassie does look "home made" to me also. The orientation of the rear wing and Intake tower looks odd also. I've seen casting which had the wing farther back from driver cockpit.
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You've provided an excellent mystery, not one I can give much to go on!

I first thought Tomica, but they would have marked the base. If the car was current in '75, it couldn't be made earlier, and HW phased out redlines in '77. Something about the sidewalls doesn't seem like HW to me, although I can see how the hub does have a bit of resemblance.

Odd that it has no maker marks...but not unheard of. More curious is no country of origin, but again that is not unheard of...might have had a "made in Hong Kong" sticker on it or something. *Or,* if it was made in the states and sold in the states, it would not require a country of origin declaration...that's a long shot, but if it was made by a company whose focus was promotional items and not necessarily diecast cars (like the Johnson-Grossfield T-bird) these things might not be necessary, and our search may prove difficult indeed. I'm fairly certain Boraxo is or was available outside of the states, so unless this is a promo item deliberately confined to the states (possible), then there should be or should have been some origin markings of some kind. The obvious first question...is there any sticker residue on the base?

The first pic shows a crimped axle sticking out from the wheel...Mattel never did that with their wheels, so that pretty well confirms for me that Matty had nothing to do with this. Until I noticed I held out the possibility that the wheels were purchased independently...still possible from another maker, but not very likely from Matty.

The upper casting has the look about it of a Zylmex or Yatming, but I am pressed to name the casting...more a generic sense about it, but a step above Summer and some others, although they can't be ruled out at this point. On a better day with better wheels and detailing it could just as well be Tomica, this would have been the era of Pocket Cars.

I gave up on my open wheelers in a bid to make some room in my cases, and never knew enough about them to make any serious headway, so I'm not much help in that regard.

I'll say you've got your work cut out for you. That is about as much as I might surmise, based more on my experience from that time frame and very general knowledge of diecast. I don't know if it is much help, but maybe it will aid in narrowing the field a bit.
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pjedsel
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Muscle Car
I may have been the one who sold it to you. :D I did have one of these in my collection at one time and do recall selling/trading it some time in the past couple of years. I can't really offer any insight into who made it - I believe it was a promo for Boraxo but not even sure of that at this point.
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craftymore
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Support your local demo derby.

Judging by the base it's a custom of some sorts with parts from Zylmex or others. I might guess the body is a hodge podge of Zylmex or other racing bodies and the wheels/axles from a 3rd party source. Is the entire tampo one sticker or a set of them? Yatming and Zylmex among other off brands of the 1970s would issue F1/Indy style racing cars but had multiple stickers in various spots.

I ran a mid 50s Ford convertible for COTD several years back that was a custom of some sorts and had a similar blank base. You can melt the zinc bodies of diecast cars back down into a workable material and then cast your own dies to produce custom bases. I've seen it done on vids from youtube and heard about customizers using it on other boards.
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Harvestman
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Captain Slow
It looks sort of like a Polistil to me...
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69Stang
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Station Wagon
John, I think you are the one I bought it from. Thank you for having such a cool, weird car in your collection...and even more for being willing to sell it!

Good thoughts guys, I like the "custom" angle until you get to the very factory flanges on the "rivet" post.
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cody6268
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Minivan
I'd go with it being a custom or homemade model. I think there have been laws for a long time requiring the mention of country of manufacture on the toy.
Edited by cody6268, Dec 30 2013, 08:29 PM.
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jedimario
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RAWR
I could see the base being custom, but the body just doesn't look it to me at all. It's not crude enough to be a "bad" custom, but not good or accurate enough to be a decent one either.
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SeberHusky
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Station Wagon
I'm going to go out on a branch here and say...could the base have been installed the wrong way? With the name on the inside of the body?
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SeberHusky
Dec 30 2013, 10:38 PM
I'm going to go out on a branch here and say...could the base have been installed the wrong way? With the name on the inside of the body?
Going by the pics and what I know taking them apart....I don't think so. The axles need support, upside down the supports would be visible.
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Firehawk73
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:dunno:
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ViperMan
Diecast Viper Club
I've been doing some looking on line to see if there is anything on this one but so far no luck. What I have noticed us there are a bunch of Boraxo train items I wonder if there may have been a flat bed with this on it?? Just an idea probably not but perhaps somewhere to look.
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SeberHusky
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Station Wagon
ViperMan
Dec 30 2013, 11:11 PM
I've been doing some looking on line to see if there is anything on this one but so far no luck. What I have noticed us there are a bunch of Boraxo train items I wonder if there may have been a flat bed with this on it?? Just an idea probably not but perhaps somewhere to look.
I've seen a lot of larger-scale diecast replicas, but none of this scale. Not even any other castings similar to this one. I'm not too sure on the custom aspect, as the reason being "Why?" If you have the tools and equipment to make your own diecast cars, why pick this particular one?

It might have had a cheesy paper sticker label on the bottom, and those usually fall off within a few years.
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ViperMan
Diecast Viper Club
SeberHusky
Dec 31 2013, 01:28 AM
I'm not too sure on the custom aspect, as the reason being "Why?" If you have the tools and equipment to make your own diecast cars, why pick this particular one?
I don't think it is a custom either. The rivets are done too nice the are factory done also the paint is factory sprayed most people the customize spray both sides of the body you can see the underside of the body casting only has over spray on it not a full paint job.
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cody6268
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Minivan
I found an Ebay listing for a model with a similar casting and wheels. It's made by Ideal Toy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1976-Ideal-Evel-Knievel-diecast-Formula-1-Race-Car-33-Big-Car-/261166385209
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I did see this mated with another year same team, 1/43 scale, forgot the maker but upscale while researching late last night. That was the only hit I got.

But I didn't find the train stuff...that might be a very good lead worth chasing out.
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

cody6268
Dec 31 2013, 08:55 PM
I found an Ebay listing for a model with a similar casting and wheels. It's made by Ideal Toy.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1976-Ideal-Evel-Knievel-diecast-Formula-1-Race-Car-33-Big-Car-/261166385209
I don't think so....


Too big, and the base is wrong. The engine cowl and rear wing are different as well.
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69Stang
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Station Wagon
HOW COOL of you to find the old Evil Knievel 1:32 casting! Yes, that is a version of the same car, and while just as off as our mystery 1:64 it's a heck of a lot closer to accurate! But nope, not the same car as the one were looking at.

Thanks so much for all the thought and input guys. I am taking the car out of the case this weekend for more pics, also to look inside the cockpit and see if their are any markings.
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jedimario
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RAWR
A bit of a tangent, but Matt Isbell posted this picture to Facebook today announcing that he's been invited to run his LS7 powered 240Z in The Mitty this year:

Posted Image
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speedyexpress48
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Magical girl of depression and despair
juantoo3
Dec 30 2013, 10:42 PM
SeberHusky
Dec 30 2013, 10:38 PM
I'm going to go out on a branch here and say...could the base have been installed the wrong way? With the name on the inside of the body?
Going by the pics and what I know taking them apart....I don't think so. The axles need support, upside down the supports would be visible.
Unless the supports were ground down, or were on the body. Both may be possible.

Actually...no. Nevermind, looking at the body, that seems way too far fetched. That being said however...this doesn't look like a custom, unless someone just customized it halfway and then gave up.
Edited by speedyexpress48, Jan 2 2014, 02:05 AM.
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GothicCarsUrban
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SUV
I don't know anything about open-wheelers, but I'm guessing this was made by the same unknown company that did the Winnebago LeSharo promos, with clear Polistil and Ideal inspiration, and that it had a country of origin sticker on the bottom that rubbed off or fell off years ago.

Then again it could have been a one-off made by a racing enthusiast who cast their own zamac, could make advanced decals and used existing wheels on homemade axles.
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69Stang
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Station Wagon
OK, I pulled the car from the case today and spent quite a bit of time with it (including these new photos). It is my personal feeling that this is not a "homemade" casting. Crappy yes, but too many elements just do not fit with a one off (or even small) production run.

I will throw these images out to you and let it stand for what you see. I would say if one of us does not come up with something from these additional pics I am just out of luck, it most likely will forever be a mystery! Thanks so much for all you input and discussions.

Ward

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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm still leaning towards something produced by a promo company not usually thought of as a maker of diecast. With no maker mark or casting number on the base, a country of origin sticker likely missing in action (if it ever had one), and crude / simple construction lend themselves to my guess.

Besides the Johnson-Grossfield T-bird, I also have this:

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It was produced for EPI out of Charlotte, NC, for Shell gas stations, which is where I found my copy. Since then I have seen a similarly decorated NASCAR style racer by them as well. To my knowledge, those are the only two models attributed to that company.

I can't help but think Boraxo likely contracted a promotional company somewhere to produce these back in the 70s, when things like this could still be made in the states, and included them in one way or another (hang tag, mail in, inside the box) with their soap products.

So technically, Boraxo would be the maker...*cough, cough*...unless and until the particular promo company can be ferreted out, which may never be possible this late in the game without the original packaging. Likely the vast majority of these went to kids to play with, and because they were "free" nobody thought to collect them or note where, when or how they got them.
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