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Per Mr. Tom Lowe....
Topic Started: Jun 11 2015, 08:15 AM (3,955 Views)
Stangfreak
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Convertible
Swifty
Jun 11 2015, 08:19 PM
Cheapening old Racing Champions castings is one of the ways JL got themselves in trouble to begin with. After the takeover a number of 'new' Johnny Lightnings' were slightly modified RC or Ertl American Muscle tools that all ended up looking lacking when compared to the originals. The AMC Pacer and Mercury Cougar both jump to mind.
I agree here 110%. I noticed this and began wondering what was going on back then. There were a few I did pass on because of this reason.
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Dragnet_Supporter
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SUV
Stangfreak
Jun 12 2015, 09:42 AM
Swifty
Jun 11 2015, 08:19 PM
Cheapening old Racing Champions castings is one of the ways JL got themselves in trouble to begin with. After the takeover a number of 'new' Johnny Lightnings' were slightly modified RC or Ertl American Muscle tools that all ended up looking lacking when compared to the originals. The AMC Pacer and Mercury Cougar both jump to mind.
I agree here 110%. I noticed this and began wondering what was going on back then. There were a few I did pass on because of this reason.
I would have to agree as well. I didn't agree with some of the shoddy retooling--like the welding of the trunks that once opened with extra large gaps.

I think it becomes a question of either not using castings that wouldn't fit into the criteria of the line, or doing the retooling right because new work has to meld seemlessly with the existing work. I believe that's why the JL line as a whole sometimes seemed to rub people the wrong way once RC2 got involved. It wasn't due to the fact that the product was bad--or even that the RC2 team was not capable. They produced some great diecast. However, they attempted to put effort into a few cars of any given release and the rest seemed to fall into budgeting boundaries or a potential lack of effort. Thus, the same casting that looked great one month, might look like it came from an inferior line the next month.

You could take the same casting, give it ten different customizers of various degrees of skill and it might look like ten different cars instead of one. I think this budget mentality cheapened the line in many eyes as much as the bad retooling. In the words of the rock band, Survivor, "It's the singer, not the song." You either give it 100%, or you give it less and everyone focuses on the percentage of the flaws because what you are doing right gets lost in the haze. It looks unprofessional or uncaring to the fans who have put their money down to support you. They begin to feel you've let them down. Excuses don't make it better. "I care but only have three colors for half the line, what can i do?" Ummmm...I would think a good designer uses those colors to his/her best efforts in spite of the limited palette.
Edited by Dragnet_Supporter, Jun 12 2015, 10:30 AM.
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DaWeber
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Station Wagon
Until I hear this info from a reputable source such as Mike Grootius or someone else connected with Round 2, I don't believe it!
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, playing along as pure speculation...I don't see JL or AW entering the $1 car fray. Matty would grind them to bits.

That said...on more than one occasion JL did enter the $2 car level, with measured success. Speed Rebels (not a long term fan favorite outside of myself), the "red card series" (which remains a modest fan favorite), and the early Anniversary/Forever series which initially retailed in the $2 range. *If* AW were to pick up the JL line, reserving those models for what now is held by their "Deluxe" bottom line issues and priced in the $2-3 range with limited features and decent paints / decos, I think it would serve to fill that level typically filled by "toys," saving the upper tiers for "collectible" lines as they are currently. AW/JL would have to walk a fine line in order to prevent stepping on Matty's toes when entering the "toy" arena, but at a modestly higher price level I think they could get away with it while offering the level of detail Matty did 30-40 years ago. The tooling would already exist, and no doubt plenty of collectors and customizers would love to see many of their old favorites come out of retirement.

But until this "reputable source" comes forward and makes themselves known, I'm inclined to disbelieve this as yet another childish spread of rumor and gossip.
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250 TR
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Echoing what others have said, I'll believe it when I see it, but if it does prove to be true and in connection with Auto World then I think it's a mistake. JL had some great cars but for the most part don't compare to Auto World and Greenlight these days. Auto World should be focusing on their current products and brand and leave the past in the past.
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Barracuda68
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I'm hungry
juantoo3
Jun 12 2015, 01:02 PM


But until this "reputable source" comes forward and makes themselves known, I'm inclined to disbelieve this as yet another childish spread of rumor and gossip.
Bet if it was someone else's like swifty or someone's FB friend that said he heard from reputable sources it wouldn't be childish rumor and gossip, but because its my FB friend it is eh?
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Any* anonymous FB "friend" is suspect. Anonymity on something like this is cause for doubt.

Not everything online is "true." Don't take it personally.
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daniel60
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Personal Luxury Car
I got a John Deere Chevrolet Cameo today and honestly it looks better than anything anyone makes today. Come back Johnny Lightning like the old days.

Posted Image
Edited by daniel60, Jun 12 2015, 04:15 PM.
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camaro marty
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Station Wagon
When I was a little boy I was told Santa was real,when I got older I waited and waited but he never showed up ,was very saddened by this run around :-( .
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craftymore
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Support your local demo derby.

DaWeber
Jun 12 2015, 12:42 PM
Until I hear this info from a reputable source such as Mike Grootius or someone else connected with Round 2, I don't believe it!
I agree with Mr. Weber.

JL had a lot of favorite models of mine. I own every single IH Scout they produced along with every '73 Chevy Caprice wagon and a whole host of other castings. Sorta want to see some more paint variations of the Scout, IH Pickup and a few others. That in my mind though doesn't require resurrecting the entire JL line though. Many of those castings are quite dated. There's a only a few that might even fit win with AW's true 1/64 requirement. It's the year 2015 and I want accurate, true 1/64 models plus rubber tires on all my collector grade cars. The outright majority of JL castings don't fit that. Same goes with the RC casting bank. There's a few castings such as the '59 and '65 Ford trucks I dearly love but the time has come to keep the book closed on these two brands. They represented great leaps forward in small scale diecast from the early 1990s through the middle part of the aughts. AW has done a great job on filling in gaps in 1/64 of missing models along with mainstream muscle car favorites. Over time I think we'll see them branch out into trucks, SUVs and other stock models. Add in Greenlight which has done a great job of coming back to life over the past year or so and M2 offers models with extra opening parts.

Let's face the factors in our hobby. It's a non-growing to shrinking market. I want to see development in new castings from the current big three in small scale . . . AW, Greenlight and M2 Machines. Stepping back into acquiring old casting banks to me represents the same mistake that plagued JL when they resurrected old ERTL and RC models into their line and called them 'new'.

Accepting these brands as defunct is reality until proven otherwise imho.
Edited by craftymore, Jun 12 2015, 07:18 PM.
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Swifty
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
Barracuda68
Jun 12 2015, 01:35 PM
Bet if it was someone else's like swifty or someone's FB friend that said he heard from reputable sources it wouldn't be childish rumor and gossip, but because its my FB friend it is eh?
Oh, that would never happen. Swifty doesn't have FaceBook. Or for that matter, friends. :(
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Dragnet_Supporter
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SUV
I think the best point in this, which has been said several different ways, is that the older castings would not fit in with the AW current line at all.

On the purely speculate note, however, I think there are more than a handfull of castings that would still sell. Frankly, I was surprised how well the 15 cars they kept repeating sold when the releases looked like they put some effort into them. But if this merger ever did happen, the only way I could see it happening is if TL planned to just have JL as a totally seperate brand...a nostalgic continuation of the line he began with. Would there be new castings added if they sold? Would they bring back the metal bases and rubber tires?

All questions that might make the JL fans sit up in anticipation. On the other hand, didn't we run this entire scenario up the flag pole with Mike G. before and he squelched the rumor? So unless TL has had a change of heart and was offered a deal he couldn't refuse in buying the line back, this is all very fun, but tentative at best.
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Atencio
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Station Wagon
I used to have a $3,000 Alienware computer. Top of the line. Now my phone would give it serious competition. Those old JL castings were great 10 years ago but they can't compare to the stuff made now.
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funeralxempire
SUV
Swifty
Jun 12 2015, 08:50 PM
Swifty doesn't have FaceBook. Or for that matter, friends. :(
Oh good, I'm not the only one.

@Atencio - Best analogy ever. :lol:
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Hosspower98
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Forever Blue Oval
funeralxempire
Jun 12 2015, 11:46 PM
Swifty
Jun 12 2015, 08:50 PM
Swifty doesn't have FaceBook. Or for that matter, friends. :(
Oh good, I'm not the only one.

@Atencio - Best analogy ever. :lol:
I second that! :thumbup:
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

daniel60
Jun 12 2015, 03:19 PM
I got a John Deere Chevrolet Cameo today and honestly it looks better than anything anyone makes today. Come back Johnny Lightning like the old days.

Posted Image
Nice casting, Daniel!

And this is why I think it *could* be possible, if the rumors turn out to be true, but as others have pointed out there is no way the JL casting bank would work in the AW format...at least not without serious reworking that would end in completely new tools anyway. The solution, and not undoable, is to keep the two lines completely separate...with the idea I would think of making JL the lesser brand and keeping AW for the collector grade series. JL would probably make the better series (so far) to pull from for contract promo issues, like Ertl and JL did before (and like Mbx did with AdTrucks and ColorComp, and Lledo did almost exclusively).

There is still value in the JL tooling bank, and certainly worth someone with the resources to bring back....but JL and AW are apples and oranges, the two lines simply wouldn't mix...to that point I agree. But companies have held multiple "brands" before, like Matty does with HW and Mbx now, so AW holding JL as a second brand is doable, but it would be unrealistic to think the two could be interchangeable, or merged in a wholesale manner.

But it still remains, this is all speculation based on unsupported hearsay...gossip and rumor.
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Swifty
Jun 12 2015, 08:50 PM
Or for that matter, friends. :(
You have more friends than you know. If you ever make it to Florida I will prove it to you.
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Dragnet_Supporter
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SUV
juantoo3
Jun 13 2015, 09:27 AM
Swifty
Jun 12 2015, 08:50 PM
Or for that matter, friends. :(
You have more friends than you know. If you ever make it to Florida I will prove it to you.
I think sometimes we have more online friends than those we pal around with frequently these days. Although I really enjoy palling around with those online friends I've met at least a couple of times a year.

Outside of that, I have "work friends." Not quite the same thing, but sometimes amusing.
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cody6268
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Minivan
You know, Round 2 still makes Code 2 promotional models for companies. Most of those are Ertl castings.
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RED64
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Compact
Swifty
Jun 11 2015, 08:08 PM
Dragnet_Supporter
Jun 11 2015, 07:22 PM
Ricky2400
Jun 11 2015, 06:14 PM
There is a press conference pending, from my understanding, but someone who knows Tom Lowe says that he is planning a "Round 2" series merged with Auto World. We still have no information yet, but as Tomy is dumping Johnny Lightning, maybe Lowe can merge it with Auto World?
Okay...if this is true (and right now it's just hearsay from a friend who knows a guy who knows a hedgehog) then I would gladly enjoy the return of JL under the managment of TL and his crew.

If it turns out to be a vague notion or a rumor, what can I say? We better get that hedgehog on the horn and see if he's just talking to his shadow :wave:
The "Tom Lowe is buying JL back" rumor has gone around multiple times since he sold Playing Mantis to RC2 in 2004. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now.

1. Auto World is making a name for themselves making true 1/64 scale cars while JLs were made to fit the blister.

2. The last time there were a lot of new JL castings was a decade ago. These may have been state of the art when released but many of the toolings are outdated now because GreenLight, M2, and Auto World have all done amazing things in the years since.

If it's true (and that's a very big if!) I can see only two potential reasons for it.

Either they want a bank of castings they can use for the next few years while they tool up more original designs or they're looking for a budget line of cars. And since we know that when they were last produced JLs were retailing for about $4 that's not very budget-friendly.
My thoughts exactly. Don't get me wrong, I still like my JLs as much as I did 15 years ago, but the castings are outdated, the lines have gone soft, and manufacturers have been placing more and more emphasis on accurate scaling now than back then. When GL first launched, they were all about accurate scaling, and they've only gotten better at it, while Auto World has gone the same way. JL would need a brand new casting line to have a fighting chance, but that's what Auto World is, a new, accurately scaled JL.

I suppose, with the delays regarding the announcement and release of Deluxe Series 3, they could be planning on axing the series altogether in favor of JL, but I doubt they could Market JL at that price point, and cheapening the models would put them in the exact same spot as Deluxe series.
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Hosspower98
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Forever Blue Oval
What more can you ask for in the Deluxe Series. Price-wise, where can you get accuracy and quality like this?

Posted Image
Attached to this post:
Attachments: deluxe.jpg (125.13 KB)
Edited by Hosspower98, Jun 14 2015, 01:02 PM.
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daniel60
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That car is an excellent example.
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GMack64
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Compact
While I would welcome a more improved JL return (as I own more JL's than GL's currently) I think it would be hard to match GL quality and price as they keep improving and their range is growing :-) I only own 1 AW, due to not being stocked locally and rather pricey here in Oz, (My "Christine's" cost me $30 a piece.)
Like others I will believe it when it happens, "IF", it happens.
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78Gremlin_GT
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The Gremlin Guy
It seems it's always a diecast-eat-diecast world out there, judging by how many brands get taken over and re-cast later in another name. I for one would welcome JL back, as they are #1 in making AMC diecasts : Gremlin, Pacer, Machine, Rambler(s), AMX, Javelin, Hornet, among others. Why would I NOT welcome them back?! B) No other maker has done as many AMCs as JL did. I hope JL, in either name or series, does make a serious comeback at some point. There are many more models they could do - Hurst Rescue Gremlin, regular 69 Rambler sedan ( no SC/Rambler version, hood scoop delete ), CGE Pacer 401, among other models. And that's just the AMC cars. Yup, while some of the quality may be less than AW, for an intermediate line, I think it would do well. And I for one would welcome them back to the fold. :wub: If it happens, it happens. Won't get my hopes up, won't get depressed if it doesn't happen, either. Let the diecast chips fall where they may. We will await the future the best we can until it happens ( or doesn't ).

Jerry
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Dragnet_Supporter
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SUV
Hosspower98
Jun 14 2015, 01:02 PM
What more can you ask for in the Deluxe Series. Price-wise, where can you get accuracy and quality like this?

Posted Image
I just found that gray version at a nearby WM...along with a few others I needed. And I agree, all that series needs is some better wheel variations. Nothing at all wrong with the diecast.

But I think most here have it right. I won't dismiss the source of this information. On the other hand, TL could've simply mentioned he didn't agree how the JL line was handled in recent years and the rumor mill could've taken that as him being interested in "handling" the line again himself. If he does, it would be very interesting. However, I've been considering this dual line of cars thing and it doesn't quite work for the simple reason that every time AW produces a superior casting, they would be sticking it to their secondary line.

Amd while some would accuse me of thinking too much, I also thought of this: What if all the current AW castings were gathered under the banner of JL2? And the older casting bank became a JL Retro line? AW could then still produce newer, superior castings and be the parent company while making some cash off some off the older castings (done right) under a name that's already synonymous with die-cast. Would such a move then improve sales all the way around? Again venturing out there with more speculation :wave:
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