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Per Mr. Tom Lowe....
Topic Started: Jun 11 2015, 08:15 AM (3,954 Views)
camaro marty
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This is like watching my favorite soap opera...........lol.
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66alfa_gtv
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Back in the 1990s, it kind of made sense to see Johnny Lightning rise from the ashes. They took advantage of a hot diecast market and a demographic ready to re-discover their childhood. The release of the reproduction cars of the late 1960s was a cool reminder of who they were, and shortly afterwards they established new paths into the collector market.
Today, I'm not so sure it would make sense for their return.
The demand for 1/64 toy cars appears to be declining. We have AW, Greenlight, M2, Kyosho and the upscale Tomicas covering realistism. We have Matchbox, Siku, Hot Wheels and several others taking care of budget diecast.
What would JL do to stand out?
I suppose if they made a comeback, realistic premium quality hot rods could be an interesting avenue. It would be consistent with the brand heritage. Aside from that, what more does the collector market need that the others will not eventually fill?
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HWJOE
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66alfa_gtv
Jun 15 2015, 10:35 AM
Back in the 1990s, it kind of made sense to see Johnny Lightning rise from the ashes. They took advantage of a hot diecast market and a demographic ready to re-discover their childhood. The release of the reproduction cars of the late 1960s was a cool reminder of who they were, and shortly afterwards they established new paths into the collector market.
Today, I'm not so sure it would make sense for their return.
The demand for 1/64 toy cars appears to be declining. We have AW, Greenlight, M2, Kyosho and the upscale Tomicas covering realistism. We have Matchbox, Siku, Hot Wheels and several others taking care of budget diecast.
What would JL do to stand out?
I suppose if they made a comeback, realistic premium quality hot rods could be an interesting avenue. It would be consistent with the brand heritage. Aside from that, what more does the collector market need that the others will not eventually fill?
The market needs diversity of product [Castings of different makes/model] and at a lower price point.
Unless you buy the Adult Lines at HW [same higher price points as M2 and AW], the basic lines are casting/design repetitive and a large portion is unrealistic castings, same for MBX.
New Siku, Kyosho and Tomica are not widely available in the US, and are pretty much online only in the US with a higher price point.
So that leaves M2, AW and GL for the most realistic castings that are widely available. If JL ever came back, in the lower price point [$2-3] /realistic casting arena, there would be a welcoming market.
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daniel60
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I haven't seen anything on the web and I'm not calling you a story teller either, just saying.
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DadsCoronet
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DadsCoronet
I was at Charlie Mack's Matchbox show yesterday (6/14) and I spoke with Bob Parker. Bob confirmed the news about Tom Lowe. He also said (maybe old news?) that Tom Zahorsky has left Tomy. (Bob has been in direct contact with TZ)

I don't know if TL has definite plans for the JL brand; what we might be hearing is that he has expressed renewed interest in the brand. I believe Mike Groothius is already on board at Round 2. I'd like to see Mac Ragan back in the mix. :thumbup:
Edited by DadsCoronet, Jun 15 2015, 01:29 PM.
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markkaz
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I don't believe that yesterday's JL's can compete with today's adult collectibles.
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RED64
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Hosspower98
Jun 14 2015, 01:02 PM
What more can you ask for in the Deluxe Series. Price-wise, where can you get accuracy and quality like this?

Posted Image
Yes, my point exactly. :thumbup:

If they were unable to move this series and decided to scrap it in favor of a cheapened JL, they would, at best, be on the same spot, assuming JL nostalgia could make up for the 15 year old castings. Deluxe toolings are as crisp and accurate as the Premium toolings, and far superior to the plastic base JLs they were selling near the end.
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Dragnet_Supporter
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RED64
Jun 15 2015, 05:53 PM
Hosspower98
Jun 14 2015, 01:02 PM
What more can you ask for in the Deluxe Series. Price-wise, where can you get accuracy and quality like this?

Posted Image
Yes, my point exactly. :thumbup:

If they were unable to move this series and decided to scrap it in favor of a cheapened JL, they would, at best, be on the same spot, assuming JL nostalgia could make up for the 15 year old castings. Deluxe toolings are as crisp and accurate as the Premium toolings, and far superior to the plastic base JLs they were selling near the end.
Here, you are reading into all the hype TZ threw out there about the troubles of marketing the brand. Some of it may have been true, but remember that even when they were only pitching the same 12-15 cars, when they made their big come backs over and over and they put that initial effort, they sold very well. They also sold in the end when effort was there. Some of the last releases flew off the shelves and OLDs.

I suspected much of what we were hearing at the time was a marketing hoax that was thrown at us from the time RC2 took over. Some of you may not remember the shell game they played, but it continued into the Tomy days. I think the line was dropped simply because Tomy had no real interest in playing such a game long term.

Many people booed them for canceling the line, but I personally thought it was better off dead than handled as they were. And i have little doubt that if they dangled in front of collectors with the proper detailing, all the people saying they can't compete would be buying them again. They did when TZ dangled them every single time. And GL and M2 were producing better castings then too.

This is just an observation. Write it down, remember it, see what happens if they make a comeback once more.
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Dean-o-mite
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Holy bandwidth monsters, Batman! Those Mustang pictures keep being reposted and reposted and reposted!
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Hosspower98
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Forever Blue Oval
Dean-o-mite
Jun 15 2015, 09:05 PM
Holy bandwidth monsters, Batman! Those Mustang pictures keep being reposted and reposted and reposted!
4 times in one thread? Should be picture of the month, eh? :D
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Swifty
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
Dragnet_Supporter
Jun 15 2015, 07:14 PM
I suspected much of what we were hearing at the time was a marketing hoax that was thrown at us from the time RC2 took over. Some of you may not remember the shell game they played, but it continued into the Tomy days. I think the line was dropped simply because Tomy had no real interest in playing such a game long term.
Tomy owns the Japanese diecast market. But what few outside Japan realize is that up until RC2's purchase... Johnny Lightning was #2. Not Kyosho, Matchbox, or even Hot Wheels. While it may not have been the reason for the merger, it can't be lost on the powers that be at Tomy that they were taking their biggest competitor off the market (much as Mattel did when snapping up Matchbox).

Still no official announcement so I'm still skeptical until I see something direct from Auto World.
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funeralxempire
SUV
Dean-o-mite
Jun 15 2015, 09:05 PM
Holy bandwidth monsters, Batman! Those Mustang pictures keep being reposted and reposted and reposted!
Once you've downloaded it the first time it loads from the cache for every subsequent request for the same image.
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DaWeber
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Haven't we already learned what happens when one manufacturer tries to operate two different diecast brands? From what I see, it is not a very workable arrangement. Recently mb and HWs are even producing replicas of the same model. Case in point is the new Tesla S Sedan. Is it really economical for one manufacturer to issue two separate castings of the same car? I wonder. Of course Mattel supposedly has the finances to do so without suffering monetary problems. But I doubt Round 2/Auto World has the same financial composition as Mattel. But, I could be wrong. Everyone is fallable and I am the first one to admit such. I guess we will allhave to patiently wait and see what happens- note, I say patiently!
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stromberg97
Subcompact
HWJOE
Jun 15 2015, 12:41 PM
66alfa_gtv
Jun 15 2015, 10:35 AM
Back in the 1990s, it kind of made sense to see Johnny Lightning rise from the ashes. They took advantage of a hot diecast market and a demographic ready to re-discover their childhood. The release of the reproduction cars of the late 1960s was a cool reminder of who they were, and shortly afterwards they established new paths into the collector market.
Today, I'm not so sure it would make sense for their return.
The demand for 1/64 toy cars appears to be declining. We have AW, Greenlight, M2, Kyosho and the upscale Tomicas covering realistism. We have Matchbox, Siku, Hot Wheels and several others taking care of budget diecast.
What would JL do to stand out?
I suppose if they made a comeback, realistic premium quality hot rods could be an interesting avenue. It would be consistent with the brand heritage. Aside from that, what more does the collector market need that the others will not eventually fill?
The market needs diversity of product [Castings of different makes/model] and at a lower price point.
Unless you buy the Adult Lines at HW [same higher price points as M2 and AW], the basic lines are casting/design repetitive and a large portion is unrealistic castings, same for MBX.
New Siku, Kyosho and Tomica are not widely available in the US, and are pretty much online only in the US with a higher price point.
So that leaves M2, AW and GL for the most realistic castings that are widely available. If JL ever came back, in the lower price point [$2-3] /realistic casting arena, there would be a welcoming market.
Classic hot rods are a great idea.Revell tried this route,but they were very hard to find. I'd like to see JL come back with something different from all the rest. Personally,I love cars from the 50's,and 60's. They seem to be covered by the other makers. How about some 1930's / 1940's cars? Who wouldn't buy a realistic '40 Ford? A '36 Ford 3 window? Maybe a '56 Merc,or '54 Pontiac? The RC '50 Ford was more of a 1:50 scale.I'd like to see a true 1:65 coupe.Nobody ever did a '56 Lincoln Premier or a Ford Zephyr. I know I'm probably in the minority,but an old guy has to dream.
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Welcome aboard, Stromberg!
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daniel60
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I haven't seen this much Activity since I have been a member of Swifty's Garage.
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66alfa_gtv
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There is a lot of love + history for the JL brand.
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daniel60
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66alfa_gtv
Jun 16 2015, 11:43 AM
There is a lot of love + history for the JL brand.
Yeah don't forget when they were on their last days, the people were bitter because there must of been some gag order because no one could talk of the ending of Johnny Lightning. I know I was bitter but I regret it big time because Tom Z was one great guy and leader of the brand and most personable a course including Mac too.
Edited by daniel60, Jun 16 2015, 12:00 PM.
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MAC RAGAN
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daniel60
Jun 16 2015, 11:57 AM
I know I was bitter but I regret it big time because Tom Z was one great guy and leader of the brand and most personable a course including Mac too.
Danny,

You and Dad's Coronet are too kind. Thank you.

Mac

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daniel60
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Your welcome Mac you are a lifetime friend, my friend. :)
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Dragnet_Supporter
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I'll echo all that about Mac R. His history with the line is not to be forgotten in terms of designs that brought diecast into a new day.

TZ on the other hand has become more of a business man. His history with the line will not soon be forgotten either, but for very different reasons. He has produced some very nice diecast. It would be a discredit to say he not without talent in this arena. However, like many of his designs, his business skills are working as a minimalist and turning minimal product into a profit. Which can either be seen as a blessing or a curse depending on where one's personal ethics compass points in terms of the bottom line--and how it is achieved.

I had forgotten that JL was #2 when Tomy acquired them. Yes, putting them out to pasture would seem appropriate if they wanted to eliminate their competition. But when one owns the #2 brand, that's not always the most desirable course when it comes to profit. I feel there's more to this story and we will probably never know it. But with all the things they might've done with a "then" reasonably viable brand that sold well enough to keep it going for several years before pulling the rug out doesn't quite make sense.

I'm thinking the old shell game was still planned on being played longer than it did. That TZ planned yet another relaunch and the tap dance would've continued if Tomy hadn't pulled the plug. The real question is, WHY? Was it new competition from companies like AW peaking over the horizon? Was the ethics compass for Tomy just not willing to risk their usual standards by playing the shell game any longer? Who can say for certain?
Edited by Dragnet_Supporter, Jun 16 2015, 05:00 PM.
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markkaz
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In regards to TZ, he doesn't control what gets produced. There are higher-ups who make those decisions. Everybody should remember the distribution problems of years past. TZ had more profitable lines to focus on.

If Tom Lowe is picking up the brand, he could do well if he figured out how to position the brand.

Matchbox has all but abandoned the realistic 1:64 arena.
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Dragnet_Supporter
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SUV
markkaz
Jun 16 2015, 06:33 PM
In regards to TZ, he doesn't control what gets produced. There are higher-ups who make those decisions. Everybody should remember the distribution problems of years past. TZ had more profitable lines to focus on.

If Tom Lowe is picking up the brand, he could do well if he figured out how to position the brand.

Matchbox has all but abandoned the realistic 1:64 arena.
That's a very good point concerning MB. Mattel, as a rule, has been a mixed bag when it comes to realism. Those who prefer it get to pick and choose from one release to the next. And the past couple of years have brought us more fantasy than reality.

And if TL is talking about being disappointed in the handling of JL, he sure isn't going to turn them into complete toys for the kiddies. Do I think it possible to have too many diecast brands in the field? Only if they all hit the shelves at once...LOL! But if you look at the amount of diecast available, then look at how much is done realistically Vs. fantasy cars and cheap end stuff, the only thing standing out in my WM as strictly realistic in 1/64 right now is the current release of M2s Autothentics.

In other words, there's room for more realistically done diecast. So that may be a strong point in favor of this argument.
Edited by Dragnet_Supporter, Jun 16 2015, 07:24 PM.
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Atencio
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I am sure M2, AW, and GL would love to sell WM more realistic cars. No GL, I only see the one line of AW cars, a few Maisto cars, and the M2s. Just because JL came back it wouldn't assure they were picked up by the big stores.

On the Tesla mention, MB did such a far superior job on the car compared to the HW. I would love to see MB do the stock looking cars and Mattel the weird stuff and front chin cars.
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accobra64
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Dragnet_Supporter
Jun 15 2015, 07:14 PM
Here, you are reading into all the hype TZ threw out there about the troubles of marketing the brand. Some of it may have been true, but remember that even when they were only pitching the same 12-15 cars, when they made their big come backs over and over and they put that initial effort, they sold very well. They also sold in the end when effort was there. Some of the last releases flew off the shelves and OLDs.

I suspected much of what we were hearing at the time was a marketing hoax that was thrown at us from the time RC2 took over. Some of you may not remember the shell game they played, but it continued into the Tomy days. I think the line was dropped simply because Tomy had no real interest in playing such a game long term.

Many people booed them for canceling the line, but I personally thought it was better off dead than handled as they were. And i have little doubt that if they dangled in front of collectors with the proper detailing, all the people saying they can't compete would be buying them again. They did when TZ dangled them every single time. And GL and M2 were producing better castings then too.

This is just an observation. Write it down, remember it, see what happens if they make a comeback once more.
As far as I am concerned Tom Zahorsky cheapened and then ruined the Johnny Lightning brand.
It's all past history.
"The horse is out of the barn, over the road, down the hill, and LONG GONE."
I don't really care any more about TZ as to where he is or what he is doing.

On a side note, I truly believe that Tomy bought Learning Curve Brands for the baby market because of its profibility and not for Johnny Lightning.
I don't think that this particular fact gets discussed very often.

I loved the Johnny Lightning diecast vehicles and have many hundreds of different ones in my collection.
2000 to about 2010 were the glory years for Johnny Lightning.
After Mac Ragan left Johnny Lightning the brand started its downward decline a short time later.
And Mac's journey to Greenlight made it a better brand.
So thanks Mac for everything that you did for the diecast market and collectors like me.
BYW, I still remember the Hot Wheels desk calendars that you were influential in producing many, many years ago.

It has been interesting reading the various comments here.
Dragnet Supporter (Robert) and I have been down this road discussing the Johnny Lightning brand many times in the past.

Cheers. Cobra
Edit: one word spelled incorrectly.
Maybe I should check my spelling more carefully!
Edited by accobra64, Jun 16 2015, 11:13 PM.
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