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Per Mr. Tom Lowe....
Topic Started: Jun 11 2015, 08:15 AM (3,952 Views)
Emptywallet
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Minivan
JL Died,we had the funeral,the wake,the memorial service.Why bring it back.Im not even the slightest bit excited to hear that it might be resurrected.
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toyotageek
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Japanese Minicar Maniac
I agree with Cobra, this has been some interesting reading. I also agree with a lot of what Dragnet_Supporter and Cobra have said.

I have one question though.... about the comment regarding JL being the number 2 brand. Is this really true? I'm honestly surprised at this, and I'm curious as to what this is based on. I'm not saying I don't believe it, but I would like to hear an explanation.

I've collected minicars for close to 20 years - mostly Tomica - but I've been in stores to buy American brands for many of those years and JL never seemed to be a 2nd ranking competitor. I would have put Hot Wheels and Matchbox way ahead of JL (and others).

BTW, for whatever it's worth, Takara Tomy recently announced they will achieve 600 million units in total shipments of Tomica die-cast miniature cars in June 2015.
Original article (in Japanese) - http://response.jp/article/2015/06/12/253268.html

Quote:
 
Takara Tomy, cumulative shipments of die-cast minicar "Tomica" has announced that it is expected to achieve 600 million units by end of June 2015. Cumulative shipments 600 million units of enrichment achieved in from the launch of 1970 about '45. It is calculated that selling one in about two seconds. In addition, 600 million units of the connection together and about 40 000 6000km next Tomica, it is the length of more than Earth 1 laps (about 40 000 km). The company, to commemorate the 600 million units achieved, from June 20, to implement the "Tomica 600 million topped Memorial! Thank you campaign," which presents the original Tomica "Lamborghini Veneno roadster" to the 10,000 people in the lottery.
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Dragnet_Supporter
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SUV
Very true, Gerry. We've watched it all with equal amounts of curiosity and disgust.

Toyotageek...I'm sure someone here could give you numbers, but the simple fact is that even though a great many collectors were tired of seeing the line cheapened and paraded in front of us in the manner in which they were near the end, a great many collectors still purchased more JL than any other given brand in a single release.

Think of it this way: If GL and M2 each came out with a 6 car release on a given month and JL had a 12 car release--and the only way collectors were going to get the cars we wanted from that set was to preorder it from an OLD, we now have twice as many JL as the other popular brands of adult collectibles. By sheer weight of numbers, Mattel would doubtless be outselling all of these brands combined, leaving JL as #2 in the pack.
Edited by Dragnet_Supporter, Jun 17 2015, 06:47 AM.
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stromberg97
Subcompact
juantoo3
Jun 16 2015, 11:05 AM
Welcome aboard, Stromberg!
Thanks for the welcome.I'm not really new,but due to band commitments,I've been away for a while.I forgot my password,and had too much trouble to retrieve it that it was easier to make a new registration.
That said.....I'm a freak for M2 Jl,Aw,Ertl,etc.Mostly 50's and 60's cruisers and hot rods.
Glad to be back.I missed everyone.
Our band will be back to work after our yearly summer vacation,so I'll disappear again,but this time I won't forget my password.
Happy collecting to all!
Ron
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toyotageek
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Japanese Minicar Maniac
Dragnet_Supporter
Jun 17 2015, 06:44 AM
Toyotageek...I'm sure someone here could give you numbers, but the simple fact is that even though a great many collectors were tired of seeing the line cheapened and paraded in front of us in the manner in which they were near the end, a great many collectors still purchased more JL than any other given brand in a single release.

Think of it this way: If GL and M2 each came out with a 6 car release on a given month and JL had a 12 car release--and the only way collectors were going to get the cars we wanted from that set was to preorder it from an OLD, we now have twice as many JL as the other popular brands of adult collectibles. By sheer weight of numbers, Mattel would doubtless be outselling all of these brands combined, leaving JL as #2 in the pack.
Thanks. My historical knowledge of the HW & MBX isn't that good, and I never paid attention when Mattel actually purchased MBX. With both HW and MBX being under the Mattel banner, I could see JL being second back then.
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Dragnet_Supporter
Member Avatar
SUV
stromberg97
Jun 17 2015, 08:56 AM
juantoo3
Jun 16 2015, 11:05 AM
Welcome aboard, Stromberg!
Thanks for the welcome.I'm not really new,but due to band commitments,I've been away for a while.I forgot my password,and had too much trouble to retrieve it that it was easier to make a new registration.
That said.....I'm a freak for M2 Jl,Aw,Ertl,etc.Mostly 50's and 60's cruisers and hot rods.
Glad to be back.I missed everyone.
Our band will be back to work after our yearly summer vacation,so I'll disappear again,but this time I won't forget my password.
Happy collecting to all!
Ron
Are you mainly a road band, or have you done some things we may have heard of, or at least listen to on Youtube?

There's a pretty wide group of diverse people here who have various degrees of talent and interests. Diecast brings us together. Welcome to the board in your new incarnation. Did we know you well before, or did you just kibitz now and then?
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Dragnet_Supporter
Member Avatar
SUV
toyotageek
Jun 17 2015, 09:06 AM
Dragnet_Supporter
Jun 17 2015, 06:44 AM
Toyotageek...I'm sure someone here could give you numbers, but the simple fact is that even though a great many collectors were tired of seeing the line cheapened and paraded in front of us in the manner in which they were near the end, a great many collectors still purchased more JL than any other given brand in a single release.

Think of it this way: If GL and M2 each came out with a 6 car release on a given month and JL had a 12 car release--and the only way collectors were going to get the cars we wanted from that set was to preorder it from an OLD, we now have twice as many JL as the other popular brands of adult collectibles. By sheer weight of numbers, Mattel would doubtless be outselling all of these brands combined, leaving JL as #2 in the pack.
Thanks. My historical knowledge of the HW & MBX isn't that good, and I never paid attention when Mattel actually purchased MBX. With both HW and MBX being under the Mattel banner, I could see JL being second back then.
You're welcome. I'm sure others could add to my simplified analogy :wave:
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daniel60
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Personal Luxury Car
I complained once to TZ about the quality of a diecast I purchased and sent pictures of others of the same model and it wasn't too long after that he mailed me a new one that I was satisfied with. I sent some cars to him too I wanted him to autograph and put return shipping money in the box and I got my cars back with autographs and he returned my money back and told me to buy more Johnny Lightning. I use to talk to him on JLT and he would always write back. He even sent me a ROAK too with great cars and a White Lightning. I haven't forgotten what a friendly person he was. I think he was dealt a bad deal with Johnny Lightning and I can't sit here and make good arguments in his defense or even write here on the same level as the intelligent people can here do but I can tell you he gave me a good feeling and I'm thankful.
Edited by daniel60, Jun 17 2015, 11:24 AM.
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Dragnet_Supporter
Member Avatar
SUV
Daniel...that's actually a good story about TZ. And in spite of my own feelings on his business standards, I am glad to hear it. Because we should all give something back to the community we serve and it's good to know he did some good and inspired some good feelings.

Thanks for sharing :wave:
Edited by Dragnet_Supporter, Jun 17 2015, 11:42 AM.
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HWJOE
Member Avatar
Fullsize
Dragnet_Supporter
Jun 17 2015, 11:42 AM
Daniel...that's actually a good story about TZ. And in spite of my own feelings on his business standards, I am glad to hear it. Because we should all give something back to the community we serve and it's good to know he did some good and inspired some good feelings.

Thanks for sharing :wave:
I have met Tom Z. at several Diecastspace.com conventions in Las Vegas and have always found him to be a friendly, knowledgeable, and generous guy. I have to agree with Daniel60 that he was given a bum deal but needed to make the best of it. Man needed to work for his family. Whatever the outcome of this JL saga is; I hope its a good outcome for everyone involved, especially the collectors!
Edited by HWJOE, Jun 17 2015, 12:11 PM.
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stromberg97
Subcompact
Dragnet_Supporter
Jun 17 2015, 10:32 AM
stromberg97
Jun 17 2015, 08:56 AM
juantoo3
Jun 16 2015, 11:05 AM
Welcome aboard, Stromberg!
Thanks for the welcome.I'm not really new,but due to band commitments,I've been away for a while.I forgot my password,and had too much trouble to retrieve it that it was easier to make a new registration.
That said.....I'm a freak for M2 Jl,Aw,Ertl,etc.Mostly 50's and 60's cruisers and hot rods.
Glad to be back.I missed everyone.
Our band will be back to work after our yearly summer vacation,so I'll disappear again,but this time I won't forget my password.
Happy collecting to all!
Ron
Are you mainly a road band, or have you done some things we may have heard of, or at least listen to on Youtube?

There's a pretty wide group of diverse people here who have various degrees of talent and interests. Diecast brings us together. Welcome to the board in your new incarnation. Did we know you well before, or did you just kibitz now and then?
I was formerly gtr_5155,and didn't post a lot.Could never get the hang of posting pix..
We are mainly a road band.Most of the group are all from NY and met in Florida.The group has been together for 31 years,with minor personnel changes due to our being old guys.I'm new,only 14 years with them.Everyone has been in well known groups,but we are now fairly unknown.Great way to supplement our pensions and social security.Due to playing old 50's rock&roll,there is not much work for us in Florida until the tourists from the metro areas come down.Our main thing is playing the country clubs and car shows.We have been playing the annual Ferrari club events for the local Naples chapter and the national Ferrari club events for many years.It's hard to play clubs.Most clubs don't have the stages or budget to fit a large group.
We have some things you can hear on our facebook page : Uptown Express
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Dragnet_Supporter
Member Avatar
SUV
I remember the GTR_5155 name. And thanks for the info...I'll check out your facebook page if it allows access to those without FB. Otherwise, I guess I won't...LOL!
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RED64
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Compact
markkaz
Jun 16 2015, 06:33 PM
Matchbox has all but abandoned the realistic 1:64 arena.
Sorry, but I'll have to disagree with you there. Matchbox has nailed pretty much every licensed model they've released lately... problem is, they don't get to release too many of those. It's the higher ups at Mattel, who decided that they should focus on fantasy construction vehicles, that's to blame for their lack of realistic models, not the brand itself.
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Swifty
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The Mustang II is a Mustang too!
toyotageek
Jun 16 2015, 11:42 PM
I have one question though.... about the comment regarding JL being the number 2 brand. Is this really true? I'm honestly surprised at this, and I'm curious as to what this is based on. I'm not saying I don't believe it, but I would like to hear an explanation.

I've collected minicars for close to 20 years - mostly Tomica - but I've been in stores to buy American brands for many of those years and JL never seemed to be a 2nd ranking competitor. I would have put Hot Wheels and Matchbox way ahead of JL (and others).
I didn't believe it at first either. My sources are Mike from Kiddie Kar (who has been dealing with Tomy, RC, and JL for years) and I then confirmed it with Andy from Chase-U Collectibles (who goes over to Japan twice a year) because it seemed ludicrous. Two sources I consider both extremely knowledgeable and trustworthy, so I've no reason to doubt this despite of how weird it seems.
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markkaz
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Fullsize
RED64
 
It's the higher ups at Mattel, who decided that they should focus on fantasy construction vehicles, that's to blame for their lack of realistic models, not the brand itself.


That's what I was saying. It is the decision makers who are deciding to have fewer realistic licensed models. Since I do the factory sealed case unboxing videos on YouTube, I would guess that 1/3 of the case are licensed models.

In looking at my recent 2015 E Case unboxing video, there were only 14 licensed models out of the 36-count case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYQHLw14NvY

Here is my playlist for past MB unboxing videos.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCEe5s3UMGU5zI6m4fsvCqVorlR2nbGS2
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markkaz
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Fullsize
Quote:
 
Emptywallet stated:
JL Died,we had the funeral,the wake,the memorial service.Why bring it back.Im not even the slightest bit excited to hear that it might be resurrected.


Johnny Lightning has disappeared before and rose up again out of the ashes. I wouldn't discount the ability for somebody to bring it back to life.
Edited by markkaz, Jun 18 2015, 10:49 PM.
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Harvestman
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Captain Slow
markkaz
Jun 18 2015, 10:48 PM
Quote:
 
Emptywallet stated:
JL Died,we had the funeral,the wake,the memorial service.Why bring it back.Im not even the slightest bit excited to hear that it might be resurrected.


Johnny Lightning has disappeared before and rose up again out of the ashes. I wouldn't discount the ability for somebody to bring it back to life.
It's going to take a lot of work to resurrect the brand after it was run into the ground.

The problem is, distribution - which as I recall was a big problem with the Forever 64 line, with the same stock hanging for months at a time - is still a very big problem. See how everyone started panicking about Auto World's fate after distribution problems stopped their supply chain and left them silent for a bit too long. Of course, it was not JL's only big problem, but it is still worth considering because the major brands are still struggling with it.
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Dragnet_Supporter
Member Avatar
SUV
Distribution is always a problem, that's true. I'm not sure that has a lot to do with why JL died. Remember, they were producing in such limited numbers that distribution in terms of the brand's hay-days would simply not have been possible.

Minimal castings, minimal numbers--again, this was TZs strong point. He's good at making the numbers work for him. But from a collector's standpoint, this isn't so good because a lot of people can't find the cars, complain a lot, and then you get this whole stigma connected to the JL line of harsh ranting and politics. And when it comes to selling anything, word of mouth really effects the buyers very strongly. So as a business model, what was done with JL pretty much made it mandatory to keep having those breaks and comeback to renew expectations.

The problem is, once expectations get squashed too many times, fewer people believe the hype. There were a lot of new followers to the brand who still mourn their death, had no clue what was going on in terms of business because they don't follow the boards. The core community of collectors, however, were pretty much split. Many left. And those who continued to buy were growing weary of the BS. So unless the outside community continued to grow from newcomers spreading word of mouth, the line's future looked iffy at best. Yet the brand sold whenever shipments hit.

Don't under-estimate the appeal of the line. Not all collectors are 100% into accuracy. Mattel proves this every day. Much of it is marketing and they way a product is dressed.
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MrFutura
Member Avatar
Station Wagon
Dragnet_Supporter
Jun 19 2015, 09:05 AM
Distribution is always a problem, that's true. I'm not sure that has a lot to do with why JL died. Remember, they were producing in such limited numbers that distribution in terms of the brand's hay-days would simply not have been possible.

Minimal castings, minimal numbers--again, this was TZs strong point. He's good at making the numbers work for him. But from a collector's standpoint, this isn't so good because a lot of people can't find the cars, complain a lot, and then you get this whole stigma connected to the JL line of harsh ranting and politics. And when it comes to selling anything, word of mouth really effects the buyers very strongly. So as a business model, what was done with JL pretty much made it mandatory to keep having those breaks and comeback to renew expectations.

The problem is, once expectations get squashed too many times, fewer people believe the hype. There were a lot of new followers to the brand who still mourn their death, had no clue what was going on in terms of business because they don't follow the boards. The core community of collectors, however, were pretty much split. Many left. And those who continued to buy were growing weary of the BS. So unless the outside community continued to grow from newcomers spreading word of mouth, the line's future looked iffy at best. Yet the brand sold whenever shipments hit.

Don't under-estimate the appeal of the line. Not all collectors are 100% into accuracy. Mattel proves this every day. Much of it is marketing and they way a product is dressed.
Well said. This touches upon an important factor that is changing rapidly now- Merchant and Customer communications. Technology is changing quickly and we should encourage direct relationships between the two. The traditional middleman storefront is inefficient and counterproductive unless they start to take a more active role in learning about their customers and sharing with their merchants. Why make guesses about what a vague demographic group wants when they can know exactly what real people want by establishing a direct communication? I'm participating in a business start-up right now that addresses this.

To be honest, I don't enjoy "the hunt" anymore. Just let me buy what I want. It's nice to avoid shipping costs by buying from a local store, but I'm willing to factor shipping into my budget and buy online.

There are many JL castings I'd love to see revived. I hope something does happen.
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