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I must rant! (put your rant here and please following the rules of the board)
Topic Started: Aug 30 2015, 01:16 PM (4,103 Views)
W Gee
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Station Wagon
Chinese product is bad because they use the cheapest material they can find (they've been having trouble lately with cheap labour ). If its sold in North America for $300 it was made in China for under a hundred. A couple middle men have made a healthy profit before your local retailer gets it and marks it up again. I'm sure China could build something of quality but nobody in the loop wants China to build anything of quality because the entire industry is profit driven.
Japan , Korea and others have already been down this road but I don't see the Chinese government figuring this out any time soon. Would you buy a $30,000 car that cost less than $10,000 to make ?
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jedimario
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RAWR
And they profit because consumers more often than not will buy the cheaper option. If high quality grills or other items start selling better, you can bet that Chinese companies will start to produce higher quality items.

If the car is a better $30,000 car than its competitors, that would be important than what the builder had to spend to make it. So, sure, maybe.
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jedimario
Sep 8 2015, 08:33 PM
They're not bad because they're Chinese, they're bad because they are made as cheaply as possible. An American company could do the same thing and a Chinese factory could build the highest quality grills on the market if they just wanted to spend the money on it.
Or the American consumer was willing to spend the money to buy...

80% are going out the door because 80% of American buyers would rather buy cheap instead of quality....been that way for over a generation, put *many* American companies out of business.

The solution for me is don't buy a grill. I don't use one often enough to justify the price. If so, I'll buy a cheap Hibachi and expect I'll be lucky to get one season out of it. Or if I ever decided to take the leap, I'd probably go looking on Craigslist or somewhere to buy used, and with my usual luck end up with a piece of junk that will convince me all the more I didn't need one to begin with.

But that's just my rant regarding BBQ's. If you use one often enough to justify the price, buy one. Just expect to get what you pay for...as is the case with most things in life.
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

W Gee
Sep 8 2015, 09:19 PM
Chinese product is bad because they use the cheapest material they can find (they've been having trouble lately with cheap labour ). If its sold in North America for $300 it was made in China for under a hundred. A couple middle men have made a healthy profit before your local retailer gets it and marks it up again. I'm sure China could build something of quality but nobody in the loop wants China to build anything of quality because the entire industry is profit driven.
Japan , Korea and others have already been down this road but I don't see the Chinese government figuring this out any time soon. Would you buy a $30,000 car that cost less than $10,000 to make ?
Pick an item...any item...anywhere except the grocery store...and the markup is about the same, *everywhere,* in the first world, capitalist societies. That has nothing to do at all with where an item is made.

The difference in cost between a '72 Chevy and a '72 Cadillac to build, which is the last year I heard figures for, was $50. A measly $50 justified an increase of retail price of several thousand dollars...HUGE money in that day and time. And that is a well known American maker, made in the USA. I have no reason to believe it is any different today.

The $30K car today *does* cost less than $10K to build, what jacks the price up every time we turn around are the "legacy costs," the generous retirement and benefit packages for union employees and inflated executive bonuses. Those alone add about another $10K to the cost of a $30K car, and are the reason the gov't stepped in to bail out GM and Chrysler, shutting down Plymouth, Saturn, Pontiac and more. Ford self policed when they saw the writing on the wall and closed Mercury for the same reason.

Legacy costs are crippling the American auto industry. That's why the gov't made builders like Honda, Toyota, Nissan and Kia to build American plants, using American labor, in an effort to put those makers on an equal playing field with the American makers. And still they are kicking our butts because of the legacy costs.
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Douglas
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SUV
Over the last couple of years I've had to increasingly work with a product (kitchen cabinets) imported from China. The home builders have been buying them to help save the homeowners on some of the ever increasing costs, but since they are made so inexpensively, I'm sure the use of these products is mostly to increase profits for the suppliers as well as the builders.

I had a long description of the China imports quality comparison to the standards of US/Canada and European imports I've worked with over the years, but lets just say the China ones are not near as good.

I do joke (complain) about the product at work, but I respect the workers and real craftsmen of that country, because I know this they probably have skills and quality standards way beyond what we ever see in inexpensive products this country desires from them, so when working with these cheap products, my joking is how I don't believe the Chinese people would likely use these kind of products in their own houses, maybe the only reason they make them is our request.
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jedimario
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RAWR
I don't think the government made foreign automakers start producing cars over here, they just incentivised it. And some states even sweetened the deal. Would be interesting to see the ration of foriegn plants in right to work vs. non-right to work states. It's pretty high.
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funeralxempire
SUV
W Gee
Sep 8 2015, 09:19 PM
Japan , Korea and others have already been down this road but I don't see the Chinese government figuring this out any time soon. Would you buy a $30,000 car that cost less than $10,000 to make ?
Japan has already rode that train to conclusion and Korea is getting there too. China will eventually as well. Many countries that we think of as sources of cheap imports produce nice stuff for the domestic market, but no demand for it exists overseas because overseas it has to compete with high-end stuff with established reputations.

And, in cases where the nice stuff for the domestic market catches on in a niche it will slowly increase in demand and prestige - take Fender or Ibanez guitars made in Japan, they're now typically seen as on-par or superior to any guitars from anywhere.
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96cutlass
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Midsize
Douglas
Sep 3 2015, 04:52 PM
Occasionally while driving in the evening, often it's dusk, but beyond dark enough you need the headlights on.
I'll pass by a car on one side of the street or the other, and notice they have no lights on.
These are newer cars, so I say to myself, surely they know it's dark, you're going to get ran over there!
or a ticket, but then I notice something.....

.....the dash lights are shining bright inside their car.

What idiot car companies would design a car with automatic dash lights, when the outside lights don't come on too!
I say, either no automatic lights at all or they all come on when the sensor says it's dark!

There were more than one make I'd noticed this with, one was either Toyota or Honda, and the other I believe was an American make.....
I don't really know, I couldn't very well see the makes....IT WAS DARK!
THIS!!! Occasionally they will be running with DRLs only, or no lights at all, and even when it is completely dark out. I can't believe that in 2015, there are still car manufacturers that don't use auto headlights, my old 2003 Impala had them... a car that was built over a decade ago and far from a luxury car. I know that GM puts them on everything, though I will occasionally come across a GM car that I know should have auto headlights, and it's dark not even with drls, which they've put on everything since 1997. I see the most Toyotas and Hondas, with some Kia/Hyundai and various others of course. I once sat across the intersection from a Ford Edge, and flashed them repeatedly, eventually the parking lights came on and that was it. With all the constantly glowing screens for gauges and radios now a days, auto headlights should be mandatory on all cars, because obviously the people aren't smart enough to figure it out on their own.
Edited by 96cutlass, Sep 12 2015, 03:47 PM.
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jedimario
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RAWR
My Navigator has auto headlights, but I never use them B)

Speaking of GM and lights, cars that turn their reverse lights on for more than a flash when they are locked/unlocked. Those lights mean something, and it's not "your car is locked/unlocked".
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W Gee
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Station Wagon
All the vehicles w/ auto headlights have an ambient light sensor on the dash that measures the outside light and turns on the lights as it darkens much like your street lights . Just more technology that allows faulty sensors , relays and stray empty Doritos bags on the dash can bring this system to its knees
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stupidity is no excuse.

When machines do everything for us...they will no longer need us...we will be expendable.

Give me a bare bones, no frills, honest to GAWD driving machine and let me drive!
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

jedimario
Sep 10 2015, 10:47 AM
I don't think the government made foreign automakers start producing cars over here, they just incentivised it. And some states even sweetened the deal. Would be interesting to see the ration of foriegn plants in right to work vs. non-right to work states. It's pretty high.
Cum se, cum sa. Basically semantics.

You are correct...our gummint didn't hold a gun to any carmakers' head. They did tell them either do it the way we say, or pack up and go home. "Incentives" work both ways.

Doesn't matter much anyway, gummint is beholding to big business at every turn.
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Hobie-wan
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SUV
Finally got a package that the tracking showed it was delivered Friday last week. It wasn't. Only showed up in my mailbox today. Now if my package from Toyotageek that had a estimated delivery of this past Thursday will actually get an update that's newer than it still being in his area on Wednesday. :duh:
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funeralxempire
SUV
Why is it that most people, when you ask 'what sort of music do you like?' they respond with 'everything' and then proceed (upon being forced) to admitting to only being familiar with a rather narrow selection of stuff that's usually been chosen for them based on other people's influences (radio/emptivee/blogs/YouTube/etc). I don't mean 'they haven't heard of my favourite bands or genres' but it's almost like they're entirely unaware of how limited their understanding of what kind of music is available is. I'll always respond to 'everything' with 'oh, any classical or symphonic stuff? any jazz? any extreme metal? any electronic stuff?' and get a blank expression like I just told them 'the world doesn't end at the mountains over yonder'. Maybe I'm just being stuck up because I realize for how diverse my tastes are, I'm not even familiar with the entire tip of the iceberg, let alone the rest of the bloody lump of ice. It seems like to some extent the people who come off as the most closed-minded about their tastes often have more self-awareness about how little of the music that's available appeals to them compared to people who like to insist they're more open-minded.

None of this is intended to criticize people's tastes, only a lack of self-awareness. Posted Image
Edited by funeralxempire, Sep 23 2015, 03:33 PM.
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Hobie-wan
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SUV
I think a lot of people will be non-specific on things they don't have a vested interest in. You can ask the same question of a person who isn't into food and you'll probably get the same sort of answer.

"Oh I'll eat anything."

"Ok, let's go get some Japanese/Indian/Ethiopean."

"Uhhhhh...."

Heck, same with cars.

"What car do you drive?"

"A Toyota."

"Toyota what?"

"Umm, Camry I think."

"What year? Engine size?"

"Umm... *cries*"

And so on.
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juantoo3
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

funeralxempire
Sep 23 2015, 03:27 PM
It seems like to some extent the people who come off as the most closed-minded about their tastes often have more self-awareness about how little of the music that's available appeals to them compared to people who like to insist they're more open-minded.

None of this is intended to criticize people's tastes, only a lack of self-awareness.
I learned long ago that some of the most closed minded people say they are open minded. Of course they are open minded to ideas/concepts/happenings/states of mind that are in complete agreement with their own...its just the ones that aren't in "harmony" with theirs that they disagree with. ;)

Some of the most prejudiced people I've met claim they are against discrimination in much the same way...

The irony isn't lost on me.
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funeralxempire
SUV
Hobie-wan
Sep 23 2015, 03:45 PM
I think a lot of people will be non-specific on things they don't have a vested interest in. You can ask the same question of a person who isn't into food and you'll probably get the same sort of answer.

"Oh I'll eat anything."

"Ok, let's go get some Japanese/Indian/Ethiopean."

"Uhhhhh...."

Heck, same with cars.

"What car do you drive?"

"A Toyota."

"Toyota what?"

"Umm, Camry I think."

"What year? Engine size?"

"Umm... *cries*"

And so on.
You might be right, but again, it's an issue of self-awareness. If you're not really that passionate about music and just consider it soothing background noise, one probably shouldn't claim to be a music lover.

Your examples definitely are spot-on though, that it's not just an issue with music - but music seems to be one thing that way more people claim to be passionate about than actually demonstrate passion for.
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funeralxempire
SUV
juantoo3
Sep 23 2015, 03:47 PM
funeralxempire
Sep 23 2015, 03:27 PM
It seems like to some extent the people who come off as the most closed-minded about their tastes often have more self-awareness about how little of the music that's available appeals to them compared to people who like to insist they're more open-minded.

None of this is intended to criticize people's tastes, only a lack of self-awareness.
I learned long ago that some of the most closed minded people say they are open minded. Of course they are open minded to ideas/concepts/happenings/states of mind that are in complete agreement with their own...its just the ones that aren't in "harmony" with theirs that they disagree with. ;)

Some of the most prejudiced people I've met claim they are against discrimination in much the same way...

The irony isn't lost on me.
I think you're just about spot-on. On a tangent from what you said, I've ranted many times about 'not-racists' (people who aggressively claim to not be racist, but often can't even get through explaining how they're not without demonstrating otherwise...) but that's probably more suitable for NationStates than here. :unsure:

On another note, I gotta get to the post office and see if anything has arrived for me. ^_^
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Hobie-wan
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SUV
funeralxempire
Sep 23 2015, 03:49 PM
You might be right, but again, it's an issue of self-awareness. If you're not really that passionate about music and just consider it soothing background noise, one probably shouldn't claim to be a music lover.
I guess I missed the implication that the hypothetical person claimed to be a music lover as opposed to possibly just giving a reflex answer when making smalltalk.

If that's the case with people you've asked, then yeah, they need to explore a bit and not actually just mean "I like the music I've been exposed to in my little insulated bubble and never roll the radio dial around, check random music website stuff, consult friends with varied tastes, or go to music festivals." :)
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jedimario
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RAWR
To paraphrase a quote from this week's installment of the only podcast I listen to- "Just be honest and admit you are a jerk so we can get over it." I have much more respect for people that are honest about their prejudice, bigotry, and/or closed-mindedness than those that fake it.
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Harvestman
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Captain Slow
Hobie-wan
Sep 23 2015, 03:45 PM
Heck, same with cars.

"What car do you drive?"

"A Toyota."

"Toyota what?"

"Umm, Camry I think."

"What year? Engine size?"

"Umm... *cries*"

And so on.
...after which a certain couple of SG members will belittle them for the fact that their car is Asian.

I hate xenophobia. And that's about as far as I can go while still remaining calm about it.
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Hobie-wan
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SUV
I was just using Camry as a ubiquitous reliable car that a lot of people own, but they might not be car people and just drive it without really caring or knowing details as long as it gets them where they're going comfortably. :)

I drive a Japanese car in Swedish clothing that was meddlingly directed to be put together by a US company. :lol:
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W_Body_Geek
Minivan
is it a Saab 9-2X? Isuzu Ascender?
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Harvestman
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Captain Slow
Hobie-wan
Sep 23 2015, 09:55 PM
I was just using Camry as a ubiquitous reliable car that a lot of people own, but they might not be car people and just drive it without really caring or knowing details as long as it gets them where they're going comfortably. :)
Wasn't referring to you, no worries. :)
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Hobie-wan
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SUV
W_Body_Geek
Sep 23 2015, 10:18 PM
is it a Saab 9-2X? Isuzu Ascender?
Yeah, its a Saabaru.

@Harvest

I didn't think you were. But I just felt like clarifying my example anyway. :)
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